‘He want aloud’

[ProfessorofDarkArts]

On a FB thread about schools and rules during the heat. Honestly I give up 🤦🏻‍♀️

As a retired Reception teacher who had to teach phonics I'm inclined to agree. The children in my class used to write 'couldn't ' as 'cunt'. (Northern accent)

In some parts of the UK with rhotic accents, the children don't learn phonics as easily as those in areas where the accent is nearer to RP.

This is interesting. Do you have a link to this?
I can’t think of a reason why this would happen if phonics are being taught properly.
Is it possible some students are using materials they find confusing (voice recordings in a different accent, possibly), or there’s a mismatch between the teacher’s pronunciation and the local pronunciation?

I have a rhotic accent myself, though I’m in Ireland rather than the UK. When my children were learning phonics some of the voice recordings (in English RP?) had to be ignored and the teacher taught the local pronunciation of er, ar, and so on.

Same. My Dad was born in 1925, left school at 14 and was largely self educated but very correct in his grammar. I have seen letters home from my grandchildren's school that shock me.

This is interesting. Do you have a link to this?
No but I heard it on Radio 4 (BBC). Probably Michael Rosen.

The phoneme 'ar' is taught as one sound as in farm (non rhotic).

The emails I got from my child’s school in the last couple of weeks all had errors.
At what point we stop blaming the heatwave…

That's what I said.

I was agreeing with you and added the video as proof.
I really wanted a word that had the ar but that would not work with a rhotic R. Something like path.

It’s taught as one sound to those with rhotic accents too.

It’s just that the sound ‘ar’ makes is different in a rhotic accent, so resources like the video linked above aren’t appropriate for teaching children who speak with that accent.

I think you are derailing the thread @Daradillington . Feel free to start your own thread.

I’ve reported your post @PleasantPedant.
I’m no more derailing than you are.

😆

OK. Sorry. Thank you.

I can see that. I had to make some minor alterattions as I had a Southern accent and my children were Northern. The 'a' sound taught as a short 'a' wasn't such a problem as it lent itself to the Northern path, bath etc. The 'u' sound was tricky and I found it difficult to say the Northern way myself everytime - put works but shut, cut etc would also rhyme with this. I explained that I learned to talk in a different place so said some words differently. They were only 4 but accepted this and they will have heard many accents on TV anyway.

I was trying to think of a word that has the 'ar' sound in it that isn't a name and that can't be said differently in a regional accent but I can't think of it.

Path, bath, staff, giraffe etc are understandable regardless of whether you use an a sound (The a sound | phonics | a words - BBC Bitesize) or an ar sound.

If you used a rhotic R when using the 'ar' phonic, how would you explain to a young child why scarf and giraffe rhyme?

The ‘He want aloud’ in the thread title to me suggests that the author has poor English. If he or she said those words, they might sound ok -
'He wa(s)n't allowed'.

If you used a rhotic R when using the 'ar' phonic, how would you explain to a young child why scarf and giraffe rhyme?

They don’t rhyme in rhotic accents though.

Lots of the rhymes in books for young children (for example those by Julia Donaldson) don’t work for those with rhotic accents.

The sound that is taught for ar varies depending on accent.
My Irish children were taught to say it pronouncing the r.
It’s not as marked, but sounds a bit like a pirate if that makes sense?

Books that rhyme scarf/giraffe and farmers/pyjamas don't work for rhotic speakers. I just read them in my normal accent otherwise, to make them rhyme, I'd have had to put on a faux English accent.

How would you explain to a young child why somebody believes that scarf and giraffe rhymes?

People from different places pronounce words differently

That doesn't really answer the question being asked.

How would you explain using phonics how Lana says her name when she doesn't say it to rhyme with Anna?

I’m not sure @PleasantPedant, as I don’t teach phonics.

I can tell you that where I am, an area where people speak with a rhotic accent, the sound in Lana is certainly not explained using ar.
That would cause endless confusion (as it often does on MN threads, incidentally).

Ar doesn’t make the sound in Lana here. Children learning phonics here (Ireland) are not taught to pronounce ar the same way English children pronounce it.

That would cause endless confusion (as it often does on MN threads, incidentally).
Only because the MNers who get confused refuse to recognise that the 'ar' phonic is the sound you get in the first a in Lana.

I come from somewhere where laugh is pronounced laff, but I'm not confused when I see something like 'yer 'avin' a larf'.

Even if you say 'Lana (LAR-na, non-rhotic R)' or 'Larna with the r not sounded' they seem to be completely baffled.

If you mention IPA, that's far too complicated for them.

"Teenaged". I see it everywhere.

I agree.

took me months to work out what “ano” was. Social media acquaintances used it all the time, and even context clues didn’t help.

finally worked it out when I heard someone from that area speaking. “I know”.