DD wanting to leave uni. Lonely and finds day to day life anxiety inducing. Will she always be like this?

[allthethings]

This is long. I'd really appreciate some support or an outsiders view- particularly if you've had similar experiences.

DD is in 2nd term of university and doesn't want to be there anymore.

Prior to this, she had a gap year and she lived at home and had a good well paid hospitality job, allowing her to save. It was always an option for her not to go to university so long as she looked for apprenticeships or entry level jobs. In the end she only ever applied for anything I sought for her.

She probably went to university to please us and get us off her back but she didn't have any friends here so we thought she'd only flourish if she started afresh - we knew it could be sink or swim.

She started in September and engaged well with her studies, attended everything, and got some good grades. She said she was enjoying the course. She had to move accommodation but seemed to be making friends and had a few weeks where we thought she was flourishing and her past was behind her. Those, admittedly, were blissful weeks, as it was the first time in 10 or more years I wasn't worried about her. I felt I could think about myself and my life.

I'm lost over how to best help her and distraught that she could drop out and be back how things were last year but with no future prospects and still no hobbies or opportunities to make friends. She has come a long way and coped living independently very well and handled her studies well She's just not able to cope with her discomfort and anxiety and lack of friends.

She's reached out to wellbeing services and will get some counseling and support but she's spiraled in the last week. I need to get her home. The plan is to consider medication for anxiety and get her some proper counseling but try to get her to go back to university as we fear she's not thinking straight and could regret leaving a few weeks down the line. But how likely is this? She's not got a plan of what she'd rather be doing. I think we'd be okay with her dropping out if she at least had some friends here, but she's just going to be stuck at home feeling safe but sad. I can't see her getting an actual job unless I do all the work and I just can't do it anymore.

Or should I push the neurodivergent screening more? Can anxiety disorder present like some aspects of ADHD inattentive or is the anxiety likely an offshoot of ADHD.

Thank you if you read this far. Where's the manual for parenting adult children?!

Your 'D'H is wrong. ND females mask. Anxiety is a huge problem because they sense deep down they don't fit.

I'm ND but didn't know. Suffered in small ways all through my childhood to early 20s and then less so until middle age when lots of shitty things happened

I understand why youre struggling and it sounds like you need to take a step back with decisions and practical stuff. But please continue to support her emotionally if you can.

I think that’s looking at it negatively. It’s not about labelling them, it’s about enabling them to access the correct support when they need it. My DD has soared since she completed her CAMHs therapy - she’s doing a vocational course at college that she loves, is getting top grades and making friends. The college is aware of her diagnosis and she can access additional learning support if she needs it. So far she hasn’t had to.

Knowing what was making her feel so out of kilter and putting a name to it has been a game changer. Yes, sometimes she invokes anxiety to get out of doing stuff but she tries far more new things because of her therapy.

As a PP says, it’s about putting the scaffolding into place to support them. But you can’t do that if you try to pretend they don’t have a condition that’s causing them distress in the first place.

Her story sounds just like that of my DD, who after years of counselling for anxiety got an ADHD and ASD diagnosis in her masters year at uni. She eventually got the most amazing support and a true advocate in her specialty tutor but I honestly thought we would lose her at several points in that journey from Y12 to now.

She is a changed person. Confident in her diagnoses and able to engage with peers (not many but a few) and speak confidently to medics and colleagues in a way I didn't imagine possible.

Good luck to you and her.

I work in a uni and I see a lot of high anxiety in students and many students whose mental health has plumetted while waiting for an adhd diagnosis. While the pandemic is behind us, its impact lingers, particularly on young people. I think you need to explore all options:
GP
adhd screening
uni coubselling
coukd explore talking therapies locally
she could speak with the course director to consider options

it is only term 2 so maybe things will settle in time. Has she been preparing for classes? Going to classes? Has she done her formatives? Has she joined any societies to get to know people? Just to see where’s she’s at exactly.
Getting her home is a good idea. If she commutes later, you could see if she could get classes timetabled over less days for less travel.
try to get to the nub of what is is she’s not enjoying- the course generally, the reading, classes, people, teachers, being aware etc the help explore solutions. Imposter syndrome? Can’t focus- what things has she tried to help focus?
I find many uni students are just exhausted after the gcse and a level process and are just spent
It may uni is not for her or this particular course which is fine. So many options of things to do. You mentioned hospitality which has so many possibilities.
I know as a parent how stressful this can be. Wishing you both all the best xxx

I'm sorry your daughter is struggling. It sounds like she needs to take a break from university maybe as sick leave so she can get better and reconsider her options.
What did she do in her gap year? Would the employer take her back? That could work if she decides university isn't for her.

I just wanted to say you are not alone. My DD14 sounds so similar

-Anxious about being late
-Anxious about getting lost (even at a school where's she's been for 4 years)
-Anxious about plans / timetables
-Friendship challenges - no really close friends
-No real hobbies and no interest in starting one
-Exhausted by normal daily life - lots of time in bed
-No skin picking but can be obsessive about things like trimming her own hair
-Lots of emotional meltdowns
-Very resistant to counselling or neurodiversity investigation

I'm already worrying about how she would manage Uni and trying to adjust my thinking now that it may not be something that will work for her.

Also similar in that she's the youngest and I've had a completely different experience with her older brother - who is very steady and has been a breeze to parent really. It's like night and day.

I also sometimes feel like I've failed her. We live in a big bustling sometimes scary city and she's at a large comprehensive which she struggles to cope with. I daydream that if I'd raised her in a quiet country town and she'd gone to a small private girls' school things would be completely different. But they probably wouldn't.

Op, can she try to find a Yoga or Pilates or some type of circuit class at Uni and go regularly? Like several times a week. Also regular swimming if she swims.

Movement and music and breathing is so brilliant to reduce anxiety (I get the physical symptoms of anxiety, but meds don't agree with me, so exercise is my medication, it is a non-negotiable. I also nearly dropped out of Uni after a crisis point and do wonder if I would have been diagnoised at primary school as ND if I had been born a few decades later. I managed to finish my degree, but returned home asap. I remain overjoyed to be back home to an independent but familiar life)

Added benefit of exercise classes is making friends simply by being along side people which might cross over into classes... She describes being lonely, but enjoys being by herself. I can relate! She just needs to find that thing that gives her enough of a boost to lift her along to face the things that are more of a challenge, until they are no longer a challenge.

Just a thought. Totally accept you need to gauge how serious the situation is.

Thank you. All opinions are welcome. I also worry about the label aspect, but I don't think it will stop her trying. Her anxiety can evoke a very physical response. It's not just an idea in her head.

I'd have loved her to go abroad for a time but she's someone who panics if a rose is closed and she has to take an alternate route to work. Buses and trains caused her much anxiety. I can't see her getting on a plane by herself anytime soon.

what course is she doing? If she can get the qualifications another way, bring her home and care for her.

To me, it sounds like she might benefit from DBT- which is very different to CBT. It teaches emotional regulation and distress tolerance and interpersonal effectiveness. It really changed my life in my twenties- I was a very emotional, anxious teenager and it really enabled me to live a happier more enjoyable life.

I haven't read all the most recent posts on this thread but she definitely sounds neurodivergent (adhd/asd) I have long suspected my own dd is too - in many ways she is similar to yours. I dont have any solutions. We haven't got a formal diagnosis but we talked about it and she decided she didnt want to go down that route. She's tried Sertraline ( didnt help her), Propranolol (helps somewhat with physical symptoms of anxiety), talking therapy (didnt help her) she's had about a year of CBT which she said she has found a bit useful. She is very passionate about injustice so this has meant in her first year of uni now that she has found people with things in common within political societies and on her course. So things have improved since school. But it sometimes feels like two steps forward, one step back at best. The anxiety is part of who they are and will always be there but they just need to learn to manage it somehow things trial and error. As a parent, it's exhausting and heartbreaking. And please ignore any PPs who suggest that you are mollycoddling her - they might mean well, but have no fucking idea! What has become very noticeable since she's been at uni is just how many other students are really struggling too. Im not sure what the answer is...

Has she ever tried Propranolol? It helps with the physical symptoms which in turn can then help to calm you down emotionally.

That's interesting to know.

She is immature. Of course she is. She's young and has very limited life experience. How could she possibly be anything but? The fix for this, obviously, is time, but it does mean that you have to ride out the difficult feelings and the hard parts and not run away from them.

Having these sorts of struggles at this stage of uni life is totally normal. I know it feels like everyone else is having a brilliant time and living in some sort of utopia where friendships are easy and meaningful and sexual relationships are handled with maturity at all times, but it's really not the case. Many, many people feel isolated, confused, miserable, ashamed, lonely, inadequate. And the kids at uni now are also covid kids who lost 2 years of social development because they were isolated at home.

It will pass.

It is also normal, as a parent, to reach this stage and need to step down the level of parenting you do. You said in one of your posts 'I need to bring her home.'

No. No you don't. You need to offer her support, but you do not need to rush in and fix this for her. She needs to fix it for herself, and you need to let her. She needs to experience these difficulties, and you need to let her. What you're trying to do is manage your own feelings around the fact that she's struggling. It's hard to watch a child struggle. I get it. But we need to be able to cope with that if they are going to launch as adults. If you can pay for her to have an hour a week to talk to a therapist, I would probably do that so she can see someone longer term and quickly, so she's got routine support that isn't you.

She's not going to make friends hiding in her flat and refusing to go to classes because they cause feelings she finds difficult, she's going to make friends by gritting her teeth and riding this out.

Just out of interest, what was her earlier life like? Did anything happen to lead to her finding daily life so stressful?

My DD does have an ASD diagnosis and I think could be like this if circumstances had been different (she's been very lucky with friends and having DH wired the same way). She's happiest as the third wheel in friendships, any worry was me projecting NT norms, for example.

She has lots of hobbies, at which she has close friends at and finds much easier than socialising separately from structured activities.

The biggest issue she has are decisions and committing, even choosing a dessert can feel stressful in case its the wrong choice. When buying new shoes, she feels more pressure than most, like they have to be the right choice. I can see that going to uni and it not being exactly the way she hoped when she decided to go would engender the same panic.

II have found that taking the commitment down a level is the best approach rather than reinforcing that avoidance is an equally valid choice (which in your case is dropping out and coming home). Reinforcing avoidance of decisions just makes their world smaller and more fearful.

So I would tell her she's doing so well academically, she's so happy in her flat, that to come home would be throwing that away. Tell her you will revisit at the end of first year and how great it will be to have a full year under her belt, an achievement in itself (so self esteem boosting). You can show it's only so many more weeks/lectures and count down. She doesn't have to enjoy every minute, that's perfectly okay and normal, she shouldn't feel there's anything wrong with that. Next year she can make choices knowing what suits her. I would strongly encourage her to join clubs and societies though.

I don't think it's counter intuitive to do more when you feel overwhelmed. She isn't objectively overwhelmed with too much on, it's the feeling being out of proportion. In these cases I think distraction and being outward looking can really help. We've confused facts and feelings too often lately in how we approach things, but the huge amount of people only finding out on middle age that running/cold water swimming/yoga help reduce stress shouldn't be ignored, let her learn this young. The worst thing she can do is spend more time in her own head.

Yes have to agree with this

I don't think anyone is saying anxiety is an idea in the head. It is very much a physical response in the body, because it's a particular nervous system response that gets us ready to fight/flee/fawn. It's a very helpful, useful system.

The problem is the nervous system being activated to that state when it's not necessary, or being activated too easily and being unable to reset to a calm state in an acceptable amount of time. The racing heart, sweats and belly ache of anxiety are very much real.

But they are not inevitable, and they can be brought back under conscious control, with a conscious effort to to do. This is what things like box breathing are for - slow, relaxed breathing, even if done with conscious control, tells the vagus nerve (which connects the gut to the heart and the brain) that everything is fine and there's nothing to panic about. Once the vagus nerve gets that message, it stops telling the heart to race, which in turn means the brain thinks the environment is safe and the body becomes calm. With practise you can learn to bring the anxiety response under control very quickly and effectively.

Please help her get a diagnosis. The knowledge of a diagnosis, learning coping strategies and the correct medication changes your life. Otherwise life is just a constant fucking grind and struggle and I say this as someone only diagnosed at 50 following my dds diagnosis. Your DH sounds like the type of person that buries his head in the sand and thinks there is a stigma to ND and meanwhile it is your daughter that is suffering!

i was in the same position last year with my daughter, she left uni , worked for the rest of the year in a shop and started her local university last September and is so much more happy and is having therapy to help with her anxiety.

i feel like the push from posters in this thread to get her diagnosed with something is just going to end up with her having a label that will make her stop trying new things because she’s now officially anxious

I wish people would stop with that absolute harmful bullshit. ADHD is not a label, it's a chemical imbalance in the brain. Medication levels out the dopamine and makes a huge difference to people's lives. Anxiety is a mental health condition that can be crippling but there are treatments available both medical and therapeutic that can lessen or eradicate this. Would you also advocate not getting a cancer diagnosis and having chemo because of the stigma or of getting glasses for shortsightedness because now you 'officially ' can't see? Outrageous that anyone would advocate leaving someone that obviously is hugely struggling just for fear of a 'label'. What will stop her 'trying new things' is having to struggle on with no help whatsoever, getting worse and worse because she hasn't had the correct intervention

Very similar problems with ds. It really wasn't obvious that he had ADHD. It manifested as anxiety and procrastination. Getting diagnosed was the best thing that ever happened to him. He stopped being so hard on himself. Medication has literally been life changing for him and the disability services at university have been amazing. Please do encourage her to at least explore the possibility that there might be another cause behind her anxiety.

Does she need to come home or would a visit from you be more productive? Could you go with her to places she might like such as a garden where she can focus on looking at plants?
You don't have to be distraught. It's worth getting some counselling yourself. Supporting an anxious teenager is hard.
You can encourage her to stay at uni, complete the course (you say she is doing well). You seem to be saying it isn't the "right" course or the "right" group of people, but there is often more than one right answer. When you feel uncomfortable anywhere, any of the right places will also feel uncomfortable until you get used to them and they start to be familiar.

HTH

@allthethings

Your last comment about panic if a road is closed scream autism to me so please read up on autism in girls and woman. It's very different to men. Socially we expect so much more from women and it's really hard for them to cope.

Situational anxiety still needs medical help. Just as general anxiety does. Also signs of ND also need medical help. THIS is where you can make a difference , @allthethings

Honestly, this is why I have been wobbling. There's been many things she wanted to quit e.g. driving and we didn't let her and they turned out okay in the end - even if we had to give her lots of support to get there.

This feels different though as her mental health is declining and she needs to get well before she will be able to do anything, work or study.