Daughter in law issue

[Carleajam]

I have a bit of an issue that is bothering me. A week ago I asked my son and his wife plus daughter who is 16 months now if they would like to go on a weekend break next year paid for by us. I messaged this and as usual got no response. After several days with no response I messaged again only to get a message back from DI saying they are very busy and will think about it.
Historically this is very familiar. In the past I have invited them to come away with us but there is always an excuse not to come. It's not just holidays but I've invited them for days out or meals even before they had their daughter.
I look after my GD once a week but would so love to spend a bit of quality time with everyone as a family.
The thing that hurts me the most is they go down to Dorset at least twice a year with her family as her sister lives there.
The problem is I don't know how to address this issue without causing upset. DI gets very defensive and I've had issues in the past where I'm made to feel guilty for making her feel guilty if you know what I mean. Don't get me wrong I get on OK with her but she is the boss and I'm wasting my time even saying anything to my son because he is under the thumb so to speak.
I don't really get it because when my kids were little when my mum and dad offered to take us away I used to jump at the chance. It really hurts me how I am offering something nice and they don't even acknowledge my invite or even act grateful. Who knows they may decide to come in the end which will be a miracle but if they decide not to how can I explain my hurt without causing upset.

Even with the most perfect relationship, he would still need to check with his wife, so that really isn’t an issue.
I’m sorry to say but please consider your son might be saying “I’ll check with my wife” as a way to stall in not having to answer you. He might not be checking anything with his wife, he just might not know how to answer you. Your title is “daughter in law issue” but I absolutely implore you to please not think like that any more. Honestly I see no issue with your DIL. It’s likely your DIL is the one encouraging him to reply more etc to you, yet she knows you blame her, even though she might very well be trying her best - you really have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. Please don’t blame her for anything, it really sours the relationship. This is solely on your son. Please consider that it’s useful to him for you to think he’s “under the thumb” as it gives him a great excuse to not have to say the hard stuff to you.
please consider for this new year to no longer see your DIL as an issue, and to calmly and gently ask questions of your son instead.

Or what happened in his dw’s childhood to make her controlling, just as some men are controlling.

Your son and DiL are equally rude in not responding to you. Clearly they don't want to do the things you suggest, and I suppose it hurts less to believe its your DiLs influence over your son. However, there is no excuse for him not seeing you himself even if she doesn't want to. I'm sorry it's turned out that way, but try not to scapegoat your DiL. If I were you I'd stop the invitations.

He has bad habits. He’s under the thumb (which seems to be her fault because she’s controlling him) and when he doesn’t respond to his mum it’s also her fault for being controlling, or she ignored you or it’s a problem because she bothered to organise something with her own family. You’re ‘scared’ to speak to him because it goes back to her - she’s not a tyrannical dictator, she’s his wife, it’s normal they talk. You’ve called this whole thing a DIL issue.

I think it’s clear from the way you talk that even if you’re trying to be nice you obviously blame her for his lack of effort and initiative and judge their relationship, and her as being controlling. I probably wouldn’t want a holiday with someone who felt like that about me.

Yes, I do agree with you and I'm at the other extreme. My in-laws live abroad and we see them for weeks at a time. I spent a month with them in the summer, two weeks at Easter etc. I like them very much but would be happy to spend less time with them! However, I do it for my DH because he adores them, I do it for my children, so they can have quality time with their grandparents and I do it for my in-laws, because it means so much to them.
So yes, I do think people should stop being selfish and suck it up. However, having been on Mumsnet for years, I think you and I are in the minority! Most people seem to have the attitude of just saying no. In this case it seems that the DIL (and maybe the son too?) have that attitude of not wanting to do it and putting themselves first. In this scenario I'd let it go. I couldn't keep asking when they made it so clear they didn't want to spend time with me.

I would be hurt by this.

They're ok to use you for childcare but can't even be arsed to reply to a lovely generous offer.

I agree you need to bring this up with your son, ideally in person.

I'd frame it as:

"I sent a message inviting you and DIL to x.

I didn't get a reply from you.

I feel hurt about that. It makes me feel like you don't care and only want to get in touch when you need my childcare (or whatever).

Is that the case? If not, what can we do about it? I'd love to spend more time with all of you. You're my son. "

Do they go and visit her sister because they don't see her often and don't live nearby?

Garbage

Well yes, I imagine most people see (or want to see) their own parents more than they see their in-laws. That's completely normal. As they are your blood relative and your in-laws are only related by marriage. Same as I imagine OP wants to see her son more than she wants to see her DIL.

My point is, if you are close to your parents and enjoy spending time with them, it shouldn't matter whether you are male or female or married or not.

DH has a great relationship with his mum and dad. It has never changed whether he has been single, dating or married. He respects and cares for them and treats them well and in turn they do the same for him /us.

I feel that there is more to the OPs relationship with her son and DIL than is being said here....

As others have said they don't want to go on holiday with you. They are trying not to say it outright. Stop asking them.

Her post is literally titled 'Daughter in Law issue'!!!! 😂

This. I think it’s terribly sad that they are happy to use you for free childcare but not decent enough to even reply to your kind offer. I would be upset too OP. Unfortunately, if your Son is led and said by his wife there’s not a lot you can do.

Jesus, it's just an old saying FFS

But I do think there is something too it, my opinion, i'm allowed to have one as much as the next person, can't post anything on MN without being bombarded with 'your opinion is rubbish but mine is on point'

Agreed! My DP has an amazing relationship with his mum, who in turn has built an amazing relationship with me. We have a group chat but they converse on their own also. He whips his own calendar out to arrange the next meet up, checking with me also before “booking it in” so to speak. He does a fantastic job of maintaining a close relationship with his DM without being a mummy’s boy. And all by himself too! Who’d have thought.

Men aren’t nearly as useless as they make out. If it’s important, they will. But also, not everyone needs weekly phone calls to have close relationship. My DP might go a good few weeks without a call, just occasional messages. The group chat means we can drop in pictures or have very light, no pressure conversations. Then we will spend a weekend with them every 3/4 months. That works great for us.

Sounds like your son is a good husband. My DH always put my wishes before his families. I really really didn’t like you saying he was under her thumb. They are married after all! I don’t think you like your DIL, she probably has picked up on this.

However the fact they use you for childcare makes me feel they should be more considerate to you. They can’t have it both ways.

Maybe take a step back.

"I don't really get it because when my kids were little when my mum and dad offered to take us away I used to jump at the chance."

This stood out to me - you can't just replicate the relationship your own parents had with you and your children. Your DIL may not have had that same experience, or worse, may have awful memories of being dragged to see grandparents and being bored and miserable while being expected to be grateful. She may have experiences of her own parents feeling beholden to anyone who spent money on them, or may feel really awkward about activities that involve you spending on a meal or a holiday.

You need to forge a new relationship with your DS & DIL not replicate old ones.

But you probably also need a chat with your son along the lines of "look, I don't mind if you don't want to accept my invitations, but I did not bring you up to ignore messages or leave them for your wife to deal with."

If they came outright and said thank you for the invite but no thanks. What will your reaction be? The lack of response suggests to me they can’t be honest with you. Maybe fear of the reaction?

Why is it pathetic or spineless??? If MIL texts DH about plans of course he runs it past me?! Same as if any of my family ask if we want to do something?!

I don't know any couple where one half agrees to plans (especially a holiday!) without mentioning it to the other 😂

Weird. Never been an issue in my family. My mum never facilitated it and neither will I.

I wouldn't ask again and I am presuming the only time you see grandchild is when you do childcare so you wouldn't want to give that up.
They are both rude so and sos, who doesn't have two minutes to reply and say thanks for the offer can we let you know?

I feel often this dynamic is created by grandparents, who make less effort with their son's children.

I know lots of people for whom this saying is true, but also lots for whom it is not true.

In the early days eg mat leave it is usually the woman looking after the baby and that can naturally lean towards her own parents depending on relationships.

And maybe her son didn’t enjoy them as much as OP?

Not all families are the same and I think you're trying to push them into doing something they really don't want to do. I realise this is because you care and just want to spend time with them though. The reason they spend time with her family is no doubt because she doesn't see them every week/month.

If you're looking after your grandchild on a regular basis, I think it'd be good for you to decide if you're doing it to spend time with them (which if that's the case, do it). If it's to help out, then you might want to think again.

Tell him you can't do child minding from January. He'll answer then.

You don't like her. She doesn't like you.
Communicate about everything - incl child minding - with your son.

That's all you can do.

Why don't you tell them exactly what you put here that you see GD regularly but would like to spend some time with your son and daughter-in-law as well

This!!! Love the people saying that he is pathetic and spineless for having to ask his wife if she wants to go away😂

Like he could just pack her stuff up the day before and go "Surprise we're going on holiday tomorrow with my parents but I didn't want to run it past you as my mum thinks I'm pathetic so just made an executive decision for us all!"