All parents are toxic narcissists apparently and all adult children have experienced trauma …

[ElspethBulgeworthythethird]

Is anyone else a bit cheesed off with the on-line rhetoric that teens and young adults seem to be plugged in to nowadays…? That somehow everyone is a victim?

That every parent is toxic or a narcissist and every woman over fifty is a “Karen”?

That everyone is suffering from trauma or needs to “heal their inner child”

Oh and then there are all the “special” on-line morning routines that involve, er, getting up, washing, eating your breakfast and maybe exercising; all of which I thought were just standard things that most people did every day without much fuss.

I don’t mean to sound horrible or unsympathetic. Of course there are some young men and women who have suffered truly awful upbringings and serious abuse which has traumatised them terribly. I am not addressing them in this post as of course they need proper support.

This post is about the comfortable young adults I know (my adult children and teens and their friends) who seem to buy in to the rhetoric of victimhood when I happen to know that they have loving parents and come from good homes where their parents willingly made lots of sacrifices for them.

Don’t get me wrong, I happen to think that the period of life between leaving university and getting your first job is one of the most challenging you experience as a young adult; when the struggle finding a job and a flat and new friends and standing on your own feet financially is suddenly very real all at once.

It’s just the culture of this generation that seems to make everyone in to a victim that I object to? Somehow everyone is “special” and “in need of healing” and I get labelled toxic if I say to my young adults that although you are special to me, we are just a very ordinary family, and life is about getting on with things and working hard and not blaming everyone else when you don’t put in enough effort and commitment yourself.

I really feel for you Doingmy as it sounds like you are in a really tough situation. That’s really awful about your redundancy. 💐

I’m sorry, but I don’t think we can expect our children to help us out financially. It would certainly be nice if your dd appreciated the difficulty you were in and offered to help but I don’t think you can expect it.

It’s hard sometimes when we see our dc wasting money while we are desperately trying to hang on to it! But I think that’s just how it is sometimes and I am sure your dd will mature and will come to recognise all that you did for her. Good luck with your job hunt.

I’m glad that therapy is proving helpful for you RandyAndTheRainbows and I am sorry you had such an awful time as a child and adolescent.

I totally appreciate the fact that you never quite know when trauma may have occurred.

If I may say so, not you personally, but I think your generation slightly underestimates our ability to spot it, many of us having been through what I think would qualify nowadays as low level trauma ourselves.

I know this in no way compares to a child in a dv situation or a child who has suffered sexual abuse, but for example, when I was at primary school in the early seventies, it was common practice for boys to be punished with the slipper and girls to receive the ruler across the hand. A teacher at our school smacked three girls across the face.

I remember a young child of six or seven being smacked by a teacher for wetting themselves.

Pupils were regularly sent to stand in the corner or on a chair, or were humiliated in front of the whole class for not knowing an answer.

Wooden chalk board cleaners or text books were regularly thrown at us by teachers when we got an answer wrong. Teachers shouting at us was a daily occurrence.

Teachers stood over us at lunch time and made us finish our food whether we wanted it or not. On two occasions in my school, children were sat there in hysterics with their plate in front of them for hours and when they finally ate the food, they vomited.

And when we got home, our parents smacked us and hit us with wooden spoons, or walking sticks when we misbehaved. We were also left alone a lot to face strangers in the park or local bullies and had to stand up to them alone. Serious bullying was rife at my secondary school. This was all considered absolutely normal in my home town for the time and you were considered a “sissy” if you complained.

I am just writing this out to illustrate that we are not completely unaware of what abuse looks like and feels like, at a low level anyway.

Thanks for your reply. So she should let me watch my house get repossessed? Whilst she pays rent to a stranger which is a lot more than when she lived here. I’ve never asked her for help in such a situation before. I’ve always been the provider, but her hard hearted attitude is truly shocking. She seems to be influenced by a particular friend who is very manipulative. I’m doing my best applying for work. I’ve noticed a lot of people saying on LinkedIn that they’ve been made redundant hence my anxiety increasing.

I think at 24 your daughter is of an age where she should be living independently. It’s not healthy for her to be living with you or paying you board . I’m truly sorry for your situation, it sounds really tough, but it’s not her responsibility to support you or take on your financial worries. If she was living at home and working, she should be contributing financially. However it’s time for her to stand on her own two feet now . I do hope you find another job and things get easier for you.

It’ll only be temporary until I get another job. It’s not about her supporting me financially long term, but helping out in a dire set of circumstances. Just as I have helped her and will in the future. Would you say this to people who need help via a Food Bank it’s not anyone’s responsibility to help them when in need? Something I always did donating food when I was earning. When she was here, she would often skip months of rent as I explained in my first post once she was being influenced by this friend. When she moved out, she would still come back with her washing and take food from my cupboard. A friend, I must add who is still living at home with her mother, as are all her other friends of the same age and they are working. Your words about hoping things get easier for me are rather hollow, not showing any support. You are only seeing things from a selfish daughter’s point of view. So please don’t say anything more as it is not helping. I sincerely hope you never find yourself in such circumstances.

I understand that you are very stressed by your situation Doingmy, but I think that calling mine and another poster’s genuine good wishes “hollow” because we happen to disagree with your opinion, is rather unfair, and again, sorry, but you invited comment on a public forum, so you cannot police how people respond when they don’t happen to see things the same way as you do.

And to say “please don’t say anything more” when you asked the question “So she should let me watch my house get repossessed?” is really unfair too.

I agree with what Writingonthewalls said. It is not your 24 year old’s responsibility to help you sort out your mortgage issues.

And bluntly your question is rather manipulative because there are many steps you can take before repossession occurs, like taking a mortgage holiday or paying interest only for a few months while you look for another job, or finding a lodger.

I very much hope that you find a new position soon but please don’t label your 24 year old selfish when your expectations of her are unrealistic. She should be applauded for supporting herself and living an independent life, not made to feel guilty!

When two people, albeit strangers, tell you the same thing, isn’t it worth just stopping and considering their opinion for a minute, instead of completely dismissing it as “unsupportive”?

Good luck with your job search.

I agree with you OP, and get that you are talking about something other than 'big T trauma'.

I have a cousin who has massively distanced herself from her loving parents, becoming really bitter and horrible to them.

Their sin, as she explains it? "They loved me too much.... have you any idea how much pressure that is? They would hang up medals I won at competition and make a big deal if my achievements. It was like they didn't fully see ME".

I knew this family - and she wasn't overly loved in any unhealthy way- she had plenty space to breathe and define herself. They had lives of their own, but they loved her, supported her, and expressed their pride her of.

Now don't get me wrong. I do get that 'over love' can be a pressure. Maybe it's even something you'd have a couple of sessions with a Therapist on. Hopefully you would then come out feeling enriched that 'ok, I get that x part of my personality maybe was shaped by Y".... I get that my parents are humans too and maybe they over-indexed on a couple of things...'

But trumpeting it like trauma and as if you were the victim of some awful parental abuse is just ridiculous.

I do believe in inner child work and working through even small T trauma for everybody can help us lead full, happy lives- but the point is healing and liberation, not to carry the so-called injury around like a badge, like an excuse for anything you are not happy with.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/struggling-to-pay-your-mortgage/

^^ This is full of good advice @Doingmy

I wouldn't expect a 24 year old to move back in to help pay the mortgage even for a short time - as moving costs money and if she's private renting she'll be under contract anyway and then when your alright again she'd have to find another rental - where prices are on the increase all the time -and move stuff again.

If she was regularly missing rentals payments to you anyway not so sure her moving back in would help - at least food and gas/electric may be lower with her not there. Plus arguing with her about rent isn't going to improve your relationship.

I do get it's really stressful a year after buying our first house and getting hit by huge unexpected bills I was at home with young kids and pg and DH suddenly got made redundant - I worried about losing 10 years of savings - but we muddled though and eventually got to better.

The beginning of my thread said DD has changed from being kind and caring. She only started missing rent payments after she became friends with a girl who still lives at home with her mum and does not contribute. She is manipulating my daughter and isolating her from me. We used to be very close and mutually supportive of each other, although I would always pay the lion’s share for everything. My daughter was always kind and respectful but has started behaving cold, disrespectful and Selfish. She only has to give one month’s notice to her landlord to terminate the room rental in a house share. She had the biggest bedroom in my house, I made the dining room into another lounge with a wall TV for her to use when her friends visited and she would come and go as she pleased. She paid me £400 inclusive pm, but now paying £575 pm rental. Many adult children still live at home with their parents and mutually helping each other especially during this high inflation and cost of living crisis.

Your still expecting your adult DD to hugely disrupt her life for your convenience and I suspect nothing anyone says to you will get through to you how unreasonable this actually is.

I don't think I or ElspethBulgeworthythethird are putting any demands on our children more dealing with their demands on us as parents and emotional fall from that.

It’s called mutually supporting each other in my eyes not hugely disrupting anyone’s life. My above thread shows how she was better off financially living with me.

My fiance's parents hit him every day until he was a teenager. Even at almost 18 his mother was using smacking as a punishment if he disagreed with her in any way. She used to bully him about his acne and call him ugly. They both left him on his own constantly so he had to parent his younger brother. His father used to hit him with a belt constantly and worked as a maths teacher in a posh private school. At weekends he would give my fiancee maths questions that were obviously too hard and then beat the living daylights out of him when he couldn't answer them. The family, as the family of a teacher, would present as middle class. He had tried to have a relationship with them as adults but they believe in discipline even with an adult child and would swear at him/ shout at him for disagreeing with them. They constantly fought and split when he was early secondary school age. Neither of them could hold down a permanent relationship with anyone else. Neither had many friends. My partner tried to have a relationship with them as adults without success. Once he confronted his mother about abuse and she had a meltdown and it became obvious she believes that she is the most wonderful loving mother that ever existed and any negativity could only have come from his dad as she did everything she could to give him the perfect childhood. She told him how ungrateful he is ect. Some people are totally unaware of the effect that some of their behaviour has. When he said he was going no contact she said he had broken her heart.

@Doingmy it's totally normal for her not to want to move back in after moving out. If you were arguing before she left she might not want to go back to the arguments. Can you ask her for a loan? Or get a lodger? If she's renting her own home and working as a primary school teacher it sounds like she's doing great ! She may also really like her rental and not want to loose it!

His mother sees regular smacking ( including with a belt and cane as his father used to ) until age 18 as good parenting and thinks my partner should be grateful for his childhood. My parents has been diagnosed with complex post traumatic stress disorder and OCD that his so severe that the department of work and pensions have ruled him unfit to work. His brother has never worked, had a relationship or left home and spends all his time reading conspiracy theories on the internet.

One person's 'I'm teaching my healthy kids discipline' is a another person's trauma.

My kids, healthy discipline I mean.

His mother also things he should he endlessly grateful because she ' fed you and put a roof over your head and clothed you and this is how you repay me by making horrible accusations ' like you are an amazing parent if you don't leave your child starving in the street.

A punishment for not tidying his room was picking him up by his thick curly hair and dangling him above the ground until he screamed with pain. Age 7 his father taught him to make a noose and to tie it to a tree and showed him how adults hang themselves and how suicide can be the answer to adult problems. He was forced to watch 18 rated movies from age 7 to toughen him up psychologically. This is his mother's idea of a wonderful loving childhood he should be grateful for.

You have no idea how this felt to your cousin or how subtle messages were given within the family unit. I think many people ( even relatives) would have looked at my family and said similar things to you but the reality was that emotional abuse was significant, to the extent that a therapist said she was amazed I had survived ( ie hadn't taken my own life or developed a personality disorder).

If I were to try and discuss this with my mother I think she would genuinely be bemused and confused and very upset. She would not be capable of reflecting on her processes and wouldn't understand, so I never really try any more ( I did when I was much younger) as there wouldn't be much point.

You honestly can't know what your cousin feels and she still may not fully understand it herself. Initially my upset with my parents was about their pressure for me to achieve academically but it was actually a much much deeper issue than that.

I don't think you can decide that addressing an issue should only take a few therapy sessions either. There is always the possibility of an "Iceburg" type issue where much is unseen below the surface

Most people pretty much, once they have grown past the teenage conflict stage would like happy healthy relationships with parents and other. If they don't, there are usually significant reasons why. Don't judge as you really can't possibly know.

Oh that’s nothing new! I worked in A&E in 2005, and a dad brought in his Precious Princess who had inexplicably developed a headache, photophobia and vomiting, the morning after her Freshers Ball. Could it be meningitis?

Readers, she had a hangover.

My partner's mother was constantly beaten as a child and left home at 14 to live with grandparents. She was low contact with her mother ( her father died before partner was born) to the point partner met his gran only 3 times. She would complain about how much she hated her childhood then be beating ' discipline ' into my partner half an hour later. His father was beaten with a belt and beat his own kids with a belt.

I am nearly 60. My 85 year old mother has narcissistic tendencies and probably narcissistic personality disorder, according to the therapist I saw for five years. Obviously she can only base this on what I told her.
It's a very difficult thing to get my head around as she can be very pleasant and good company. As a child I was very compliant because her outbursts frightened me. I was smacked occasionally but that doesn't feel like trauma and nor does any of the other 60s/70s parenting.
It went wrong when I was a teenager really, and she took normal teenager defiance very personally, and then when I had children she was great as long as I did things the way she told me. I was always worried if she was going to visit as she was critical of everything and I always felt I was a disappointment to her. In fact she told me I was. Part of narcissism apparently is seeing your children as an extension of yourself, and she worried a lot about what I did as she felt it reflected on her.
I have spent a lot of time wondering if I am the narcissist because over time I have found her very difficult to be around. She doesn't take kindly to anything she perceives as criticism even if it's something unintentional. I have rarely heard her apologise for anything.
My children have difficulties of their own due to my relationship with mother, but as they have matured to adulthood we've had some profound conversations and they understand my love for them is unconditional, I've apologised for where I went wrong and we are all healing. Neither they nor my therapist think I am a narcissist and we all hope that I have been able to break the cycle.
I think the difference with my mother is being unable to have that kind of conversation because we all tread on eggshells around her to avoid her rage. I still love her and I'm now involved in caring for her, but for my own sanity I have to keep to 'grey rock' conversations with her, even at her age.

I think social media can be good for raising awareness, but it can also really make people think that the normal ups and downs of family life are more abusive than they are. To a degree, if your children say you're a narcissist and you think, ummm am I? Then you're probably not.

You are under a lot of stress and I don’t want to argue with you Doingmy…

… mutual support is good but at your dd’s age and stage of life, she is just starting out and needs to focus on herself. I don’t think that we should be expecting dc in their twenties to give us the same level of support that we give them.

I only think we should be relying on our dc to support us when we are very elderly, and they are much more mature, and even then, I hope that I don’t have to rely on my dc too much!

I know it’s easy to say when I am not facing unemployment but your dd is just at the stage where she is forging her own independent life and that’s hard enough as it is.

I am really sorry that you had that experience Tryanotheruser901 and that you are still dealing from the fallout.

That’s simply horrific Thehouseofmarvels

As previously mentioned, I wasn’t referring in my op to adult dc who experienced real trauma like this.