All parents are toxic narcissists apparently and all adult children have experienced trauma …

[ElspethBulgeworthythethird]

Is anyone else a bit cheesed off with the on-line rhetoric that teens and young adults seem to be plugged in to nowadays…? That somehow everyone is a victim?

That every parent is toxic or a narcissist and every woman over fifty is a “Karen”?

That everyone is suffering from trauma or needs to “heal their inner child”

Oh and then there are all the “special” on-line morning routines that involve, er, getting up, washing, eating your breakfast and maybe exercising; all of which I thought were just standard things that most people did every day without much fuss.

I don’t mean to sound horrible or unsympathetic. Of course there are some young men and women who have suffered truly awful upbringings and serious abuse which has traumatised them terribly. I am not addressing them in this post as of course they need proper support.

This post is about the comfortable young adults I know (my adult children and teens and their friends) who seem to buy in to the rhetoric of victimhood when I happen to know that they have loving parents and come from good homes where their parents willingly made lots of sacrifices for them.

Don’t get me wrong, I happen to think that the period of life between leaving university and getting your first job is one of the most challenging you experience as a young adult; when the struggle finding a job and a flat and new friends and standing on your own feet financially is suddenly very real all at once.

It’s just the culture of this generation that seems to make everyone in to a victim that I object to? Somehow everyone is “special” and “in need of healing” and I get labelled toxic if I say to my young adults that although you are special to me, we are just a very ordinary family, and life is about getting on with things and working hard and not blaming everyone else when you don’t put in enough effort and commitment yourself.

I’ve tried that but they don’t listen. Everything is the Government's fault or parents fault isn’t it? There is an utter inability to accept responsibility or develop any resilience. Our generation had it easy and everything fell into our lap. At the same time they think they’re entitled to the latest everything, meals out, new
clothes, alcohol every day. If they can’t afford a holiday it’s the end of the world.
Gaslighting and toxic are the favourite words so often. There is no real empathy for others, just blame and a sense of being hard done by.

@Writingonthewalls Keep at it. Just challenge everything they say, We didn't get taken out for meals ever. Our holidays were all camping in musty tents or YHA thin mattresses in dorms full of strangers. No one drove us anywhere. We walked, in all weathers. Just tell them: 'You can think that but it doesn't make it true. In reality, we worked/walked/had no new clothes/holidays/meals out etc.' It might even be worth saying that we were so used to discomfort that it made us more resilient and that we have made them too comfortable. There's a lot of truth in that.

We had some things far easier - it is true: free uni education is a massive plus. And cheaper rents but we lived in absolute dives. DS is complaining about London rents but they refuse to share one bathroom between four, and refuse to look outside zone 2. I'd nevber have dreamed of being that picky in my early twenties. And I worked three jobs. They hold out for the dream job...

Yes so true. I really wonder how they’d cope without phones and the internet, huge TVs and takeaway food, to name but a few things.

They'd moan ! Home delivery has a lot to answer for . One DD thinks she has it so hard , she has no kids , boyfriend , owns her home / car . changes her job whenever it suits her . Older DD fuck don't even get me started ! Never seen so much finger pointing , everyone is to blame apart from her . She hates me so much as her mother / women I swear it feels like being verbally attacked by a misogynistic male!. Constantly saying they have very little empathy and using it as a reason to achieve fuck all and blaming their childhood for it . I fought and worked hard so they could be strong , confident women with a voice and it's me they're attacking .

Well most social media is in inherently narcissistic esp of the influencer type and most teens go through a toxic phase when they are abusive towards their parents. So in actual fact, the opposite is often the case. Add to that the cancel culture of erasing anyone else’s opinions, voila perfect storm. I think it is important to hear them out and let them know that having different opinions has to be ok. They don’t have enough life experience to understand the faddy nature of life.

When mine raise stuff like this I am hasty to point out their own behaviours of the past towards us, that were not always perfect either. Not as young children of course, but as teens.
No childhood can be perfect, especially if there are multiple siblings. Even with perfect parents, there will be some strife amongst siblings and realistically, all parents argue with each other at some point. All families will experience pain and emotional distress and growing up and launching is difficult. Especially if when you look online it appears others have it together and you don’t. That is confusing for them.

My DC have some really good and really bad memories from the Covid period, that trauma is not of my making but I am not going to minimise it. Many adults and authority figures behaved very badly towards youngsters and I think it is ok that they are still confused about it. A lot of people in positions with extreme power do have personality disorders, that is a fact.

I know I sound awful but the lack of gratitude really gets to me sometimes and the constant inference that my adult and teen dc are somehow hard done by.

We’ve just spent an awful lot of time, commitment and money making sure one of my dd’s feels settled at uni and of course we don’t begrudge any of it - we want to support her in every way we can - but then we get a text saying that all the other students have cars apparently and a larger living allowance. I replied by sending a link to a local student job website and got called “toxic”.

My children have grown up poor in a rich area and it is hard to see others with a lot more than you, but now they're almost grown I don't get those kind of messages anymore. If this is the first time you've encountered this then communication is always better than passive aggressive dismissals, even if they do make you feel better at the time!

She's an adult, have a grown up conversation about it. Explain to her what you've done and that you can't do any more even though you wish you could. Don't accuse, don't complain, explain. Maybe it hasn't occurred to her how much you've done as you've never told her how much effort it is so it just becomes expected.

@ElspethBulgeworthythethird I think the moaning about others having more would get to most of us, that's life after all! Hopefully the toxic comment was slightly jokey.

Even rich kids who have everything handed to them act like this. If you have victim mentality and compare your life with others then there will always be someone sho has it better than you.

Yes I suppose my reply could be construed as passive aggressive, although I suppose I saw it as “realistic”. And no this wasn’t the first complaint and we have always been open about finances and involved her in budgeting etc and come to mutual
agreements about what was affordable etc so she definitely knows what is possible for us.

I agree it is hard to be around people with more material things than yourself at that age but I think it’s a lesson all of us have to learn at some point in our lives; that there is always going to be someone richer, more privileged, more intelligent, more beautiful, more accomplished, more fortunate etc. So I don’t see the problem in learning it young and learning to be grateful early on in life.

Thing is though. Most people looking at my very middle class childhood and teenage, would have had no idea how my mum was an abusive narcissist.I didn't realise myself because it was all I know and thought it was what everyone experiences. It has taken me years of therapy to get to the more secure place that I am now and I still have difficulties and a lot of emotional issues coming from it.

I am glad that there is more awareness. It may mean that some people " jump on the bandwagon" but it is making many others genuinely aware of what constitutes abuse. I see it as similar to the openness we have now about domestic abuse I'm marriage/partnership. People are more aware and less likely just to stick in a relationship that is damaging.

Yes I would definitely agree with you there EducatingArti it is definitely a good thing that there is more awareness and I am sorry your childhood was abusive.

I do think cases of genuine abuse are undermined though when so many young people, of whatever class, who have had good, supportive upbringings claim to need “healing from trauma” or “need to heal their inner child” or whatever.

Yes parenting takes place with more awareness and sensitivity now and we know more about attachment theory and early years development which can only be a good thing.

But there seems to be little equal awareness or understanding or acknowledgement among teens and young adults about how hard parenting is, even if you just for example take 0 to 3 years, and you think of the broken nights, the nappy changes, the constant observation and safe-guarding, the juggling with work.

Years ago when people had larger families, more siblings would be looking after their younger brothers and sisters I suppose. Nowadays young adults have very little responsibility for others until they become parents for the first time themselves.

What strikes me is how the last 3 generations have been expected to parent their children very differently. Things go from being normal parts of childrearing to neglectful or abusive within a generation.

Parents may feel like they can't rely on their own parents for advice which was surely the norm for most of human history. Instead they have to get more "official" advice from "experts" and this can be very idealistic. I think this is really anxiety inducing for parents and I'm not surprised it's taken on by some children who end up feeling like victims because their parents couldn't live up to it.

I have a friend who has recently become a grandmother. Her son and his wife refuse to listen to her or even accept her gifts. They prefer to listen to the ‘experts’ they say. She is understandably hurt and upset. She isn’t interfering or even offering advice. They just don’t want her involved in any way.

Does "adult children" include all of us?

Trauma can include being bullied or being sexually abused by a stranger or teacher et c so yeah younger absolutely have good parents and a good home and be a survivor of CPTSD.

So I don't think you can always look at someone with a good upbringing and assume they don't have trauma. Abuse is abuse whether it's bullying or An incident of sexual harassment/inappropriate touching or whether it's parental abuse.

I am one of those with a wonderful middle class upbringing the best schools and stuff but I'm in treatment for CPTSD and Borderline PD. I had a verbally emotionally and sometimes physically abusive parent , I experienced bullying at my primary school and unwanted sexual touching from non immediate family member and also kids at my school and a stranger as a teenager. Nothing like rape or anything . I suffered a serious illness as a teenager, ME/CFS, had also self harmed since a child . Apart from the ME no one knew I had been through trauma.

Surely you don't begrudge someone like me not being able to work and having trauma therapy ? my therapist told me it doesn't matter that I didn't have a bad childhood as such because the effects of what happened to me are the same as clients he has worked with who have suffered incest, rape or been in care. He used to be a social worker before becoming a trauma therapist and he said I display the same kind of attachment issues as children in care do. From just a bit of unwanted groping and some verbal abuse and neglect and the other kids at school always bullying or teasing me . So yeah trauma can be anything even something small.

I was a very damaged child and teenager, lashes out at other kids and myself, but my friends parents and teachers just assumed I was bad or a very dominant headstrong personality . Or attention seeking. !u own parents thought so too and were always telling me my issues are made up.

I no longer compare myself to other trauma survivors. Therapy is helping me heal, I'm learning to feel safe and not live in emotional dysregulation, flashbacks , self doubt and shame 24/7. Maybe I'm a snowflake (I'm 41 and definitely a bit spoiled) but I'm happier now I'm no longer denying "my truth." If that makes me a narcissist then so be it.

don't get me wrong OP. You seem a decent parent as far as I know, and I think your daughter is absolutely wrong to call you toxic for the reason she did. But please be aware you have no idea her friends and peers haven't had trauma. Just a one time assault is enough to cause PTSD, being abused verbally long term however mildly if it involves threats of violence can cause CPTSD.

I see it both ways. I'm currently incredibly pissed off with my daughter for dictating when she comes to visit with her two year old, then bossing me around and being rude to me on arrival! If I say anything she kicks off with how we need to do more for her- well jo you are 30 now and I've been parenting for 30 years and now I need a bit of a rest and a mental break!!

Sorry forgot to say the other way was if I've made mistakes I'm more than happy to apologise for them but I'm not paying for everything , sorting everything out and being treated like a doormat!!

I don't think that is unreasonable of you at all!

Yes because most previous generations had toxic parenting behaviours
And we don't want to be the same.
I ended up with an eating disorder because of the emotional and verbal abuse I suffered as a teen.

I know I sound awful but the lack of gratitude really gets to me sometimes and the constant inference that my adult and teen dc are somehow hard done by.

I think expecting gratitude is probably a mistake - easier said than done but I've been hurt by DD1 attitude towards us - DH shrugs and sensibly says focus on me/us and other kids.

I've put a lot of time and energy into the DC and did think this would mean I wouldn't get treated as the enemy - but I'm increasingly getting impression DD1 just doesn't see me as a person.

I also think we've underestimate IL influence - even DH bit upset they've had more contact with DD1 than us and even he says you can hear the eye rolls on the phone when she got what she wants and done with us.

MIL is always in competition with other females she encounters even if they aren't aware and I now wonder if DD1 is similar towards me which is off putting.

I wouldn't have sent job link - I'd have said I'd love to buy you a car but we can't afford it and running costs are surprisingly high so may not be as good as it looks.

The teen years weren't that bad till right before end and did think we'd have re-develop our relationship a bit now she's an adult but it's hard - doesn't help I always wanted a better relationship with parents and IL who absolutely struggled to see us as adult well into our 30s.

My 24 year old DD has gone from being a kind caring young lady to someone I barely recognise. She seems influenced by friends, one in particular, who has encouraged her to move out. She did this in a thoughtless selfish way after a summer of spending her money going to every concert and festival and getting a loan for her first car. Then, after missing paying me rent for the third time, saying she had no money which caused us to row she announced she was moving out.

I have recently been made redundant, and aged 59, I’m worried about quickly finding another job. I asked my daughter if she could temporarily move back to help me out but she said no it’s not her problem. She would never have behaved like this a few months ago. I have always put her first, paid for everything and helped her succeed on my own since she was 13 as her father was unreliable and we got divorced. She got a good degree and is doing well in her job as a Primary school teacher. I am sick with worry about this situation. Any advice will be greatly received.

I’m very sorry you suffered abuse Dolly567

Seeing as this thread has been revived recently, I will repeat what I said in the op, which is that I was referring to teens and young adults who have NOT been abused, but who, on the contrary, have had good, involved parents who love them and have put them first.

And sorry but I also think it’s quite short-sighted to say that most previous generations had toxic parenting behaviours, as if that was intentional on their behalf, when the majority of people parented as best they could, with the information they had available at the time.

Do you really think that the generations represented by your children and grandchildren are going to say that your generation’s parenting is perfect? Do you not think perhaps that will have their own ideas about what constitutes good parenting and that it might look very different to yours?

Well said OP