SAHM vs Working Mum - debate here please!

[jackstarbright]

O.k go for it! You know you want to...

As an aside, our dd wants to go to boarding school. SHe is either incredibly secure because of our wise parenting decisions or she is sick to death of the sight of us.

maybe so twinset, but i think it is ridicolous to apply something to one gender, but not the other, on something like thins

a man can still be a good father if he works FT as he is the breadwinner

but a mother who works full time can't be a good mother even if she is also the breadwinner

it is bollocks

even it works for DP and her family, it can't possibly work for everyone, and the lack of ability to empathise about other families situations is bizarre

I agree totally lula, I think I said that gender should be irrelevant.

I don't agree with daftpunk's decision if it has been made because she is a woman ( I suspect this is the case) However if she is at home because it suits her as an individual and her family unit than that is a good thing

Wastwinset - your posts are always well thought through and reasonable - but I still think you're being a little too charitable to dp!!

Yes, she may well have chosen a partner who 'balances' her. Some people are happy in polarised roles where, eg father has sole responsibility for earning and mother stays home and does all things domestic. I suspect it's far less the case these days, because of changing working conditions, education for women etc, but no doubt some couples are very happy like that still.

But where dp is making a massive leap, is in drawing a generalised conclusion from her own experience. She is a SAHM, therefore all mothers of children of a certain age ought to be. She thinks her way is right. She has an utterly narrow, bigoted view. That's what is offensive.

I am a full time WOHM. I claim the following things only, - about me:

• I find my career intellectually stimulating
• I enjoy the social life that comes with the job
• I enjoy the things the money enables us to do as a family
• the pension is really valuable to me because my DH my die before me, and I know I would be miserable surviving on a state pension.

I do not make any claim that being a WOHM makes my children any cleverer, happier, or more well adjusted in any way. How the hell would I know whether they are? Any more than a SAHM can say that about her children?

I am all for people making their own decisions for their family within their particular parameters. And I suspect strongly that anyone who makes the kind of extreme claims that dp does, it actually not as secure and comfortable with her life as she tries to say she is.

yes, i think we are agreeing ecactly, it is what works for the individual and their family dynamic.

labelling whole tranches of women/men as bad parents simply for working is lunacy

esp. when i imagine they would be castigated for having teh temerity to claim benefits or tax credits when they should be out working

damned if you do, damned if you don't

lol at me being nice to daftpunk, I suspect there is little we agree on.

I genuinely think that DP takes a purposeful stance to oppose 90% of MN on contentious issues.

My two pennorth, for what it's worth.

I went back to work FT when dd was 3 months old and have worked FT ever since, she is now 14. I had to go back to work, I was a teenage mother (boo hiss) whose DP had just buggered off so was single mother (extra boo hiss) so had to work to keep afloat. Otherwise would have been a teenage single mother on income support. Can you imagine - if I had a council house I would be a real scourge of society in Daily Mail speak.

I am a good mother - DD is a happy, secure, well-adjusted and confident child. This is not luck. She knows that she is absolutely the most important thing in my life, however real life includes having a mother who has to work to pay to keep a roof over our heads.

I managed to climb up the career ladder and now have a well-paid professional job. DD knows that this wasn't achieved without a struggle and certain sacrifices. I hpe that I am a good role model to her.

DD would probably follow the same path i.e. be a working mother. She was just as scandalsied by the crap career mothers furore and has been reading the comments in the papers re the Mumsnet putsch with undisguised glee.

DP - I am secure. I am certainly not going to start doubting myself due to a few dozy comments on the internet. I am certainly not offended, I just wonder why you seek to try and offend people in a community like MN where you chose to spend your time. I can only imagine that you enjoy being contentious and enjoy the attention your comments bring.

It would pay also DP not to be too hubristic. OK so you and your other half are ok at the moment. However, what would you do if the worst should happen, e.g. him buggering off. If my DP left, I would be fine, I have my own money and my own pension, financially I would not suffer. The same cannot be said for you.

Getorf;

Not attention seeking at all...I only post on certain threads these days...have spent most of the week on the WB thread chatting with people who, ...wait for it....

actually agree with me..! >

I am aware of the set-up here, I no longer talk to people I used to have a laugh with (shineoncrazydiamond for example)....the BNP threads were really the end for me...I know that, however, I am still a mother, I have the same issues you all have, it would be nice if I was shown some consideration....getting spoken to like I'm a complete cretin is not good for anyone.

I have been both. For different people, at different times of their lives, the answer on "what is best?" can change.

I worked (very) full time until ds was 18 months - from 10 to 18 months, by choice. I am a very good mother, with a well-adjusted, happy little boy. At the time, being at home with a son who slept for hours per day, meant I became depressed and felt a bit useless - not great company for him, not wanting to go out and socialise etc. I realise that I was fortunate to have a dh that could be home early every night, I could use my salary to pay a nanny that worked well for us, etc. An extra salary also meant no financial stress, so happy parents, we could go away as a family whenever we wanted to at weekends, etc etc.

It's not black and white. For me, working during those months of my young son's life meant I was a better parent than I would otherwise have been. The same might not apply to my friend, or even to me next time.

Daftpunk you were totally attention seeking.

You started by trying to make jokes and you were ignored, you then asked if mrsbaldwin thought she was being a suffragette by sending out a few emails which was also ignored so you then went for the lowest denominator and told us all we were bad mothers.

Well you filled in some time I suppose.

I think that is a good point as well MisSal, most of us will be both at some point which makes all this bickering so daft.

Not really sure what you're on about, I didn't get involved with that thread because it's boring...I spoke to MD on there yesterday,..infact I addressed my post to her personally as only wanted her to reply...we exchanged a few posts and that was it....

posted on there today...once I think...

If you consider 4 posts on threads that are 800+ posts long as attention seeking....I'm not really sure what to say to you...other than your wrong...

I am a SAHM, most days that's my best choice. On my worst days I wish I could rush out the door at 7am and spend a day with people who value my brain, my wit or even my clothes! However I made my choice when I had my first child and feel, for whatever reason, that it would be unfair to offer less of my time to his siblings. All will work out really well if my new business takes flight, otherwise that gap will be huge by the time dc4 goes to school.

I think the worst of this is enforcing your choice on others, only the extremes pose a 'lesser' childhood. The mother who only stays at home, ie child sees four walls only and the career driven socialite parents...so not home for breakfast or bed during the week and hardly at the weekend either. I'm sure studies show that as long as a childhood is filled with routine and consistency it's usually happy and good foundations for a happy adult life.

Your first post on the thread, not joining in just an attempt to be rude and seek attention.

Again not related to the debate, just attention seeking.

You then sieze on a single point made by some random poster on WOHM being crap and start your own rant until you are asked to leave.

That sounds quite attention seeking.

Having beed reduced to the depths of copying and pasting posts which I hate I am going to mark some essays on the roles of men and women in religion.

"he (DH) would never let me put our children in a nursery."

My husband 'lets' me do whatever I want because we have equal status and he's not in a position to let or not let me do anything.

That was a joke I was having with MD...

I spent 2 minutes on there earlier saying not everyone thought the advert was offensive...that's true..

And anyway, Where the hell do you think you all are...in some secret meeting at MI5..?

this is a parenting forum for gods sake....you're not James Bond.

Oh dear. Listen up all. DP actually lives in a Utah compound and pretending she is a normal, if rather reactionary lady of middle England, is as far as she can imagine freedom.

She looks very fetching in a dimity frock but needs gentle prodding towards the ways of the modern world.

people are rude insulting/call you names ( which is not nice nor should it be acceptable, but that's life ) becase the views and political ideaologies you align yourself with are foul,repugnant and an anatehma to about 99% of posters on this board.

not making the conneciton betwen people calling you rude or treating you badly and the stuff you spout is a bit naive.

people don;t dislike you because you are 'Daftpunk' but because of the abhorrent views you espouse, and i am sure that whoever was spouting them, would get the same treatment

Lulumama;

I understand that, however I do feel like I'm being hounded off MN...certain posters attack and abuse me at every given opportunity, and alot of that was going on before the BNP threads....it is totally out of order.

People constantly link other threads and bring up things I said months ago.

What wastwinsetandpearls failed to mention was my apology to everyone on that thread, esp to mrsbaldwin....but her intention was to show me in a bad light...

How sporting of her

I agree with DP. There was absolutely no need to bring up DPs political views on this thread. No one has asked mine, and before you say they might have a bearing on her stance, then so might my views.

Its not fair, and its bullying. Let DPs arguments stand or fall on their merits or demerits.

I know how tempting it is. I frequently want to make pointed posts about another posters previous, but try very hard not to, because each thread should be taken as it comes.

There's enough on this thread that makes the mind boggle, without needing to look elsewhere.

Such as her assertion that pre-school children ought to have one parent at home full time, and that if you work full time, you are 'not around at all' for your children, and that 'career women' (though apparently not men) put more effort into their job than their children.

It's offensive shite.

DP - where are your children? Surely you are neglecting them by being on here so much!

Oh yes, Violet, its arrant nonsense. But then, DP knows I disagree with everything she says pretty much. But we have an agreement to disagree, while I secretly try to sway her to the paths of righteousness.

oh, leave her alone Caoimhe.

If you are trying to make a point about the silliness of her views, then do so. Plodding irony is just dull.