SAHM vs Working Mum - debate here please!

[jackstarbright]

O.k go for it! You know you want to...

So by your logic any man who would find being at home all day with a child boring shouldn't have them as well.

nope, dp, here's your definition, no changing the goalposts now...

By daftpunk Sun 10-Jan-10 11:41:17
Aitch,

I would define a career woman as any women with a full-time job.

All women are equal in this, a woman working F/T at tescos on 15k a year is the same as the woman working for Saatchi & Saatchi on 50k...just some will be able to afford live in nannies etc.

Why do you consider it a sacrifice by the way, do they drive you mad? Do you find it boring?

and EXACTLY, ytd.

DP what is your stance on SAHM's who use childcare, btw?

the subject line of this thread should be 'dp vs working mum', tbh.

i can't think of any sahms who really give a fiddler's fart about what their working pals do.

I am a SAHM. I love it and feel so privilaged to be able to do it. I have lot of friends who are alos SAHM and they are all wonderful mothers.

I also have a lot of friends who are working mothers and they are also wonderful mothers.

We all love our children and are doing the best we can to bring up our children in the best way possible. The best way is what ever works for your family. When are we going to start respecting eachother's choices. Life is not a competition.

I think this is all a bit pointless.

I bet in reality dp is a bored frustrated housewife, who's kids are at school all day, and she's realising that they are no better or worse, no more intelligent or no more stupid, no more successful or unsuccessful, than the children of other women who go out to work full time/part time/ not at all!!
She probably can't find a job, and it's finally dawned on her that she'll be up shit creek when it comes to pensions!

She's just that other people's kids are just as happy and clever and well adjusted and that their mothers have careers too!

LOL at mothers needing to sacrifice a few years.

But fathers don't, do they?

What a joyless view of motherhood that is - I enjoy being a mother, I don't want it to be a sacrifice and I don't think my kids would enjoy the permanent whiff of burning martyr.

The trouble with this thread is there is a danger that in order to argue the position of WOHMs some are going to start bashing SAHMs. And it will start all over again.

I have done both. There is no perfect vision of motherhood.

And that doesn't mean I think SAHMs are burning martyrs btw. Just the ones who are doing it as a sacrifice, rather than because they want to. If people want to they should do it, and everyone else should shut the fuck up about it - it's no-one else's business.

I think everyone's just bashing dp at the moment - with sound reason!

I am not sure about the benefit of this debate. I work 3 days a week 9-5. I am home before 6pm even on the days I work. Both DC are at school 8.30am - 3.30pm - so all I am missing out on is a couple of hours after school 3 days a week - although accept it was more than that when they were little. However the nature of my job is that if I took 5 years off while they were little I would never be able to go back as my skills would quickly become obsolete.

I get extra days off in the school holidays by working 4 days a week during busy times. I would go a bit mad at home if I was a SAHM.

This works for me - keeps me and my kids happy - incidentially they have had the same nanny for 5 years - who they love to bits - as I am not convinced about a nursery set up for babies under 18 months, even if it means giving the nanny half my salary.

I am not working for vitals, although neither am I working for second cars (we have one only and its than 5 years old) or expensive holidays or expensive clothes - I am working so that as a family we have savings and therefore financial security, that I don't have to watch every penny in the supermarket, the kids can do swimming lessons, etc etc.

I find daftpunks comments extremely offensive...

No but Pagwatch is right, these threads invariably degenerate into extreme militant WOHMs coming on and accusing SAHMs of being prostitutes, lazy and skivers and extreme militant SAHMs coming on and accusing WOHMs of being uncaring, neglectful mothers.

It's crap. And it's only blinkered wankers who do it, hence the widespread yawns and biscuit symbols when this topic is aired.

Look it's a pointless debate.

Say we conclude that yes actually it is better that women stay at home with the kids. What difference will this make to real life?

Would I expect friends who have worked incredibly hardand who have vital jobs making a huge contribution to society, to go home?

Would we as a society expect to support these families who on reduced income cannot pay the bills or mortgage, with social housing, increased state pension?

I do not know any women who work to afford skiing holidays etc. Those with that kind of lifestyle can afford it anyway - those who work do so because they have to/ want to .

I don't find DP's comments offensive because I don't take her seriously.

I treat her the comments same as I would Jeremy Clarkson or David Baddiel or someone of that ilk

These debates rage on an on because both types of mother feel undervalued and criticised by society for different reasons.

Right, here we go...

DP - I work full time; I earn in excess of £75k per year; I am a single parent; I have to work to pay my bills (believe me, you always spend up to what you earn and I was single and childless for many years and have the accompanying debts to pay); so, should I not pay my debts and go onto benefits because I selfishly had my very, very cherished and adored daughter? Or do I selfishly continue to work and keep my home dignity?

FWIW, I have nothing but admiration for SAHMs. I think it is a hard and demanding job. You get very little time to yourself with small children around. I think it can be isolating and also can leave you unsure of your value and worth (as society largely treats SAHM with disdain).

If we all had the opportunity to choose, I'm sure many of us would make different decisions. I have already taken a much lower paid job than the one I had when I became pregnant in order to have more flexible working and a family centric approach. For that, I now earn half of my previous income.

This debate sadly always focuses on the negative and ignores the fact that many, many women are being incredibly creative and entrepreneurial and are finding ways to make a living outside of the constraints of the typical 9-5.

The necessity, or desire, to combine motherhood with a career has sparked many a creative business - just look at mumsnet.

If we supported each other a bit more, and stopped viewing SAHM vs WOHM as a black and white issue, this wave of female entrepreneurship could be even more powerful than it already is.

In the meantime, conventional business needs to get switched on to the fact that many of Britain's best female talent is draining FAST out of the system and setting up on their own. If they don't respond, with more family friendly practices, they're going to find themselves seriously devoid of talent.

DP- hope you had a nice xmas

Now, about that other thread; the one where you promised to answer my questions after xmas?

Don't worry, I will try and find it and link it so you won't have to search for it.

I have been on tenterhooks for your answers since December...

I am a SAHM a d would perhaps have done things differently in hindsight. I wish I could have kept my job but circumstances ( and recession) conspired against it.

Life is messy and many of us are just tryi g to do our best at the time - sometimes we have choices, sometimes we don't. That's just the way it is.

I think, also, it is part of being human to strive for change and "betterment" (else we'd all still be living in caves). This is not confined to men. I think that women have the same desire to create and change and improve things which is what drives so many of us to work or be the best at what we do. I think it's almost denying ourselves our basic drives to assume that we can squash this because we have children.

I think that's why so many SAHMs end up doing so much more than simply caring for the children.