We are considering circumcision........

[fustilarian]

For our 3 month old son who is half jewish, but the wrong half. My partner is circumcised and would like his son to be too, but is not adamant if I don't want to do it.

I see that it is a very heated topic on mumsnet.

I think that the procedure without anaesthetic is clearly barbaric and horrifying. With anaesthetic it carries risks too, but would you anti-circumcision lobby say it is barbaric done in this way? If so, why?

ABD, how can i say this gently. you are a walking exemplar of how this stuff perpetuates...if you put your kids thro same thing...if not, why not?

because something is a societal norm (or rather a section of societal norm) does NOT make it alright. in the slightest.

children don't want to be angry with their parents and parents often do things (that are bad for their children) for the best possible reasons (they want well for their children.

doesn't make them right.

i'm not sure if that is any clearer but i hope it is.

sophable - I see what you are saying now.

Is it the fact that 'it hurts' which makes you and others feel it is wrong or is it that the boy/man has a piece of his skin missing or something else?

I am still not sure why exactly you and others feel it is wrong if it is OK to do it for medical reasons?

i don't think it's wrong to do it for medical reasons ABD. at all.

ok, look at it this way, do you think it is ethical to give a baby a general anaesthetic for no medical reason?

nevermind the (not skin, that is dismissive) part of the penis removed...it is a procedure that shouldn't be undertaken for anything other than medical reasons.

As I've said before, some forms of FGM are considerably less invasive than the MGM practised by certain Westerners.

Some forms consist of partial removal of the clitoral prepuce, others of cutting it, pricking it with a needle, or even simply rubbing with a turmeric leaf.

None of these are as bad as what is being proposed in the OP, but whereas mention of FGM results in instant horror, the same people will prevaricate over and attempt to justify chopping bits off (why?) little boys.

I am still not sure why exactly you and others feel it is wrong if it is OK to do it for medical reasons?

Oh FFS, is it ok to chop your daughter's breasts off?

No, of course not.

But OTOH if she had cancer and had to have a mastectomy, then nobody would condemn.

Can you really not see the difference?

quite someguy.

that is quite, someguy.

rather than hey you're quite some guy (said in an oklahoma! type stylee)

@ sophable

sorry I know this isn't a funny thread but that made me pmsl

OK. I see the point of view others have. I'm off to bed now but I hope the OP has found it useful as a debate.

As a bloke with a Jewish mother and a foreskin I guess I am allowed to stand on both sides of the fence on this issue.

Goodnight all.

huzzah for your mum!!!!

I think its a terrible practice, I honestly do. Those who have read my previous posts on religious subjects will know I am very open-minded when it comes to cultural and religious differences. But I think this practice is barbaric. Surely the reason they say believe babies don't feel it as much can only be because babies are not able to articulate their pain.

I'm not well-versed in Judaism, but could anyone explain to me the thinking behind why God has created males "flawed", in that they beed to be corrected by human hands. Surely God has created us perfect?

As I understand it Sakura, it's not a 'correction', from a religious point of view it is about obedience to God's law. Judaism is a religion about dedicating your life to obedience of this type. It's not about logic and reasons, it's about having the responsibility (and privilege) of following the law.

From a sociological point of view, I would say it's about tribal marking.

Once again thank you for a really helpful debate. My partner is now in agreement with me and we are not going to go ahead with the circumcision. He feels that there are no reasonable arguments in favour of it. He still feels instinctively that he would like our son to be like him, but knows that it cannot be justified in any way.

I actually feel very relieved. I did not realise but it has been a weight on my shoulders since he and his twin sister were born, and I always felt it was unfair that he should have to go through something horrible that she didn't need. I just never questioned whether it was a serious option for him not to be done before, now it seems completely obvious.

If he does want it done as an adult it will be a very nasty process that he will always remember, but at least, as you say, he will have chosen for himself.

Bye from me.

Fustilarian, glad you both came to a decision.

Brill fustilarian and Mr fustilarian.

Glad you were able to come to a mutually agreed and informed choice fustilarian.

For what its worth neither me nor DS1 will be having it done either.

choosyfloosy, thank you for that; its very interesting.

fustilarian, glad you managed to make a decision (and secretly glad about the decision you made)

I am pregnant expecting a boy, my do is corcumcised and so is my stepson , dp would like our newborn son to be circumcised not sure what to do

Might be useful to start your own thread after reading this one @Heather251. This one is from 2009!