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Original poster

We are considering circumcision........

196 replies

fustilarian · 01/12/2009 23:05

For our 3 month old son who is half jewish, but the wrong half. My partner is circumcised and would like his son to be too, but is not adamant if I don't want to do it.

I see that it is a very heated topic on mumsnet.

I think that the procedure without anaesthetic is clearly barbaric and horrifying. With anaesthetic it carries risks too, but would you anti-circumcision lobby say it is barbaric done in this way? If so, why?

OP posts:
spicemonster · 02/12/2009 09:11

Your son isn't Jewish. And cutting a bit of him off isn't going to make him Jewish

pottycock · 02/12/2009 09:12

God BonsoirAnna - what a weird perspective!

Speaking for myself OP, I find this a barbaric practice and will never understand how anyone would want to put their child, their baby through something like this for anything other than a medical reason.

brimfull · 02/12/2009 09:15

Do Jewish men and boys go around flashing their dicks to show they've been circumcised then?

How do people know if they are or aren't?

My mum is jewish ,dad isn't -my 3 brothers are all proud owners of foreskins.
All non-practicing though so doesn't mean anything to them anywya.

SleepingLion · 02/12/2009 09:17

I'm with those MNetters who can't support anyone in a quest to justify a desire to cut pieces off their child for no medical reason.

ABetaDad · 02/12/2009 09:26

DS2 had it done for medical reasons at age 7 and he was in pain afterwards. If you are going to have it done then do it now and under anaesthetic. The problem is that the foreskin is fused to the glans at that age and has to be torn away from the glans first and that is what causes the pain - not so much the cut itself.

Shortly after DS2 had his circumcision I discovered I am Jewish (the right half) so feel slightly odd about this question as am not cirumcised and not intending becoming a practicing member of the Jewish faith.

Would I have it done? Well if I felt strongly about my jewish identity I would but only anaethetic. I do not regard it as mutiliation.

Bonsoir · 02/12/2009 09:29

ggirl - in the shower at the gym... All the Jewish men discreetly check everyone else out!

Heathcliffscathy · 02/12/2009 09:31

there is ABSOLUTELY NO scientific evidence that babies feel less pain than adults. quite the contrary at this preverbal stage they have no way of rationalising or explaining that pain to themselves and therefore it's probable that they experience a kind of terror that an adult or older child wouldn't feel.

brimfull · 02/12/2009 09:34

how do you know this Anna ?

have you been lurking in men's shower rooms

CMOTdibbler · 02/12/2009 09:34

I'd leave it for your DS to decide when he is old enough.

Bonsoir · 02/12/2009 09:35

DP told me, of course!

If he has a doubt about another man's Jewishness (ie looks and surname are not completely conclusive) he checks them out in the shower .

spicemonster · 02/12/2009 09:38

All men check one another out in the shower - not just Jewish ones

noddyholder · 02/12/2009 09:39

Unneccesary surgery and pain is just that...unneccesary.Risks of anaesthetics infection etc are very real so why do it?

GoldenSnitch · 02/12/2009 09:44

After reading WildSheepChase and ABetaDads posts, I have no idea how you could have it done!

Of course it's going to be painful, you can't keep him anesthetised until it's healed! You won't be able to explain to him what's happening so he's likely to be petrified too!!

My friends little boy had to be circumcised as a lbaby and I remember seeing his poor little, red, bloody, swollen penis during a nappy change

Me nephew had to have it done at 11 and spent months with reoccurring infections.

Penises are meant to have foreskins. Please leave your sons alone until he can make the decision for himself at least!

Bonsoir · 02/12/2009 09:46

"Please leave your sons alone until he can make the decision for himself at least!"

That's not a rational case. Early circumcision (first weeks of life) is a pretty eventless operation. Circumcision gets increasingly more difficult, problematic and traumatic as the years go by.

MaMight · 02/12/2009 09:46

Why stop at the foreskin?

You could have his earlobes removed too. They're pretty useless and it might make it easier for him to wash behind his ears.

ABetaDad · 02/12/2009 09:52

There are health benefits to foreskin removal for both men and their female sexual partners.

cremeeggs · 02/12/2009 09:57

I'm Jewish but not particularly religious.

I didn't come under any pressure from my family to have this done to DS - I think partly because my Mum remembers what it was like for my brother as a baby when he had it done.

i personally felt very strongly I didn't want it done, as I just couldn't understand the necessity of it in the same way that i now see a lot of the other Jewish hygiene laws as outdated.

But it's all about personal choice at the end of the day. Good luck whatever you decide.

Original poster
fustilarian · 02/12/2009 09:59

Thanks all. I will be out all day today, so will take stock of the debate this evening.

Bonsoir- why do you think it gets more painful/traumatic as you get older? Is it because of this fusing to the glans business? If so, when does this happen?

All others, please do keep keep posting your thoughts.

OP posts:
onebatmother · 02/12/2009 10:00

I think that's a myth ABD - at least now we have soap and hot water.

GoldenSnitch · 02/12/2009 10:02

Why is that not a rational case?!?

Not her foreskin, not her decision.

onebatmother · 02/12/2009 10:08

pretty eventless operation for whom? and how can you possibly know?
The rational position is to assume that it will hurt very, very much - until it is proven otherwise. Which it isn't.

zazen · 02/12/2009 10:09

This is true ABetaDad, if there are no condoms around. Research done in Africa about the transmission of AIDS did not take into account the use of condoms, as the Christian US aid groups, condemn the use of contraception. Far better to lop something off than use a condom eh?

I say leave the foreskin alone, your boy will never be 'just like his dad', he's a different person after all.

If your DH wants his boy to be like him in this painful way, you have to ask what circ meant to him. Is your DH grieving over his mutilation, and jealous over his son's perfection?

BTW the emotional impact of circ is not to be underestimated. I had a bf once who had/s real issues over being mutilated in this way - his words. He was a surgeon, so he knew the procedure, and just couldn't understand why his genitals had been cut, for no medical reason, when he was just a little baby. He never trusted his parents, he felt they had betrayed him. Now, I know everyone is different, but this was how he felt about it.

Deadworm · 02/12/2009 10:10

And wrong to irreversibly mutilate a part of the body so bound up with self-image and self-esteem.

Bonsoir · 02/12/2009 10:18

Deadworm - for men for whom Judaism is part of their cultural heritage, being circumcised is a vitally important part of their self-esteem, IM (quite extensive) E.

onebatmother · 02/12/2009 10:21

Then let the boy decide when he is - at the very least - verbal.