Are we all spoiling our children and letting them be the boss?

[myhandslooksoold]

Hello
I am usually a lurker on mumsnet (sorry!) but for the first time in 4 years I'm driven to start a post!
A couple of things have started to 'niggle' about the way I am bringing up my children (DD4, DS3) To be honest, I think many families have the same issues but are in varying states of awareness about this!

When I look around the DC's bedrooms and around the house I feel a sense of panic about how much stuff they have. Then they eat half their dinner and then say "Is this enough to eat so I can have pudding?" and then they seem to have 'treats' of some form or another constantly- it's drip, drip, drip of presents and new toys all the time from me, Daddy, family and friends.

Then today I went to my friends house and the kids were doled out constant treats of ice lollies, biscuits etc etc. She is my best friend but I am starting to feel like we can't be together with the children because her children are so spoiled- constant daytrips, snacks, lollies and so so many toys- her kids are really horrible and I wonder whether this is the reason.

Then I spoke to my other friend this evening (who by comparison to my BF is really strict on treats) and she said she did not want any presents for her son's birthday because he has too many toys (although I think he doesn't have that much). She made me reflect on the way I treat my children and I admire her because she has the courage of her convictions to say this despite the inevitable complaints from her son.

So all this happens and it has got me thinking....
I think I want to change tack on the way the kids are brought up. I think I am pretty good as a mum- consistent, firm, loving (still prone to tempers, screaming and all the usual stuff however!) but I feel 'victim' to the pressure to get the kids all the 'kit', invite the whole class to a birthday party at the soft play centre (instead of inviting 5 friends over for afternoon tea which I would prefer) etc.

I'm waffling here, I guess what I'm asking for your opinion on is should WE all be concerned about our 'soft' parenting that this generation of children seems to be receiving? Do we all need to be a bit more like my 'stricter' friend?

We have both children's birthdays and Christmas in the 3 winter months.

But we have never bought things like bikes for those occasions. We get them when the children need them which is usually in Spring or Summer when you realise they have outgrown the old one.

It just sort of happened because eldest child was ready to graduate from trike to bike in May. It's a better time of year to pick up second hand items because other people are realising how much their DCs have grown over the winter and spring cleaning their garages.

Waiting for Christmas or birthdays all very well when the child is doing the asking (often for a variation on a toy they already have), but when the child genuinely needs something, it's not really spoiling them to get it at another time in the year.

My DDs Birthdays are Nov, so they only get presents in the winter months... to get round the lack of presents all year round, I try to think ahead on their lists and buy stuff that they will need in the summer or when they're a bit older. These toys then go into a big box and wait until the time is appropriate, then when they have been good and they've not had a toy for a while, they are allowed to dip into the box and get a 'new' toy out. It works a treat, because they get so much at Christmas / birthdays that they don't notice that some of their toys have been put away, and then its always really exciting for them when they are allowed to get a new toy out. It also acts as a reward for them, and satisfies my parents' need to overindulge the children at Christmas. Everyone is a winner!

I do buy bikes etc for Christmas too - there's no reason why they can't cycle round the local park at Christmas - we're often seen out and about the local lake on Boxing day.

Other than that, if they want something else they have to save / sell something for it.

Thanks for this thread, it's making fascinating reading! And very inspiring too, so much so that I have just gone through DS's toy boxes and collected one bag for the bin and one for the charity shop I would probably throw out more but DS2 is due in a month so he will be getting all the baby toys.

I don't spoil my children (thats what granny is for).

They do get lots of days out etc if I can afford it, no fancy holidays as I def can't afford that.

I am most definatly the boss, not debate on that one.

They do get to negotiate on some matters but not all and I do't always give them options, or many options if I do.

Sometime I wish I could do more for them, not because I feel pressured or harrased into it but because I love to see them enjoy new things and have a open outlook on life where anything is possible.

The trick I found though is limited negotiations, mums is boss, and limited or no options especiall y with under 5s or you will be there all day .

What interesting reading, my DD is only 7 months and as a Nov baby would be getting presents in one hit at the end of the year. It was really bothering me as I grew up only having presents for xmas/birthdays and wondered how to get round it. For her 1st xmas, everyone said she was too young for xmas and gave her money but she still received an obsene about of toys.

I bought things for a 6 month old, waiting for her to grow into the toys which worked brilliantly, by the time the original gifts/ teddies/rattles/teethers were outgrown I had toys to fall back on. Recently I could see she was bored and so bought her a push along train, a shape sorter and a ball.

I felt guilty for buying her toys for what seemed like "nothing" as it goes against the grain for me and have to remind myself that its developmental. But i still struggle with it, she has far more than I did at her age (my mum used to take photos of our pile of presents on occasions) but compared to my friends babies, she has very little.

Already with a 7 month old, my peers are buying clothes perhaps twice a week, a toy every shopping trip etc. DD has perhaps 10 outfits, 6 sleepsuits and 5 romper suits but her wardrobe is full to me and it feels excessive, but my friends children have far far more and I am left feeling guilty already.

Great thread, its left me lots of ideas to draw upon as DD gets older.

I feel so much better reading this, I am not alone. I am concerned that I will be fighting this excess myself.
My 2 month old has more clothes than he could ever wear, mostly gifts, & mostly from MIL. He has already grown out of loads that he has never worn. I find this really sad.
He has loads of toys as well even though he can't play with them yet.
This thread gives me strength to know I'm need to make a stand from the start!

I think I spoil my kids on some issues and not so much on others.
I spend a lot of time with them and we do holidays, days out etc but I don't think that is spoiling them , maybe indulging them, I don't know. They have never been "passed from pilar to post" as my mum would say and I have generally put their needs first and planned virtually everything around them.
They do have too many clothes, so do I.
Probably too many toys.
Get things not just for birthdays/Christmas (dh just bought dd a very expensive phone) not her birthday.
They do get ice creams several times a week,plus lots of treats but they are expected to eat their meals otherwise no treats
One of my fave sayings is that "There are children starving in Africa, finish your dinner!"
A close friend allows her dd to leave her meals then buys her treats/ice cream to eat, she is paying the price now as her dd is a nightmare where food is concerned.
My children are disiplined if rude or step over the boundary line.
They are quite aware that I am not running a democracy. Both myself and dh are in charge with one of us the clear leader dependant upon the situation.
Mintyy was right when she said that times change. I only got things for birthday/Christmas. I only had small birthday parties but there were no ball pools etc to have parties at when I was a child. Throwing large parties is fine by me as soon my kids will grow up and I will miss not having them.
I spend a small fortune on hobbies for my children but again, I would rather do this than other things and they don't get pocket money and understand if they have pocket money then no dancing classes etc. they accept this completely.
I try not to beat myself up when I hear my children talk about how x has the latest this and that, there is always a play off to be had and I just bite my tongue. It does wind me up though.

Hello me again.
Firstly can i reassure that I am definitely NOT a journo or anything like that. If an journalist is reading this and is going to nick it then I want a large cut as it took me ages to write the various threads, my eyes nearly dried out last night being glued to the laptop, I am hoarse from reading out all the threads to my DP and I have spent nearly all day thinking about this and also have spent more time talking to my friend about this today! Quite frankly, I am exhausted.
But..exhilarated. I feel like I have turned a corner. I set out on this parenting lark with all the principles that many of you have reminded me of on these posts. However, gradually they have been eroded- by peer pressure (friends who indulge their children), advertising and my DC's themselves who (like any other child of course) have worked out how to get the most out of me. The presents/treats/days out issue and the 'who's the boss' issue are linked because they strike at what one poster has described as material and emotional overindulgence

There are so many individual points that I would love to address one by one but really do have to go to bed soon! I now feel like I have made a great new emotional and intellectual connection with a new bunch of people. I was missing this in my life. Thank you!

DH and I were thinking about this recently. For ds2's birthday we went to a local farm which is absolutely amazing - playgrounds, sandpits, toys, animals, indoor soft play. It was a brilliant treat.
When we were there we noticed you could get annual membership. It wasn't "out-of-reach" unaffordable. Then some very good friends mentioned that they had membership and went quite a lot, and were obviously keen that we joined for company there...
It made us think a lot. We COULD afford it - although would impact on "spare" money for charity donations. But it really made us think about what we wanted to be a weekly trip and what was a special treat. Both ds have plenty of toys at home which they love playing with and we have a fantastic park - free - 2 mins walk away.
We decided it should stay a special treat.

With regard to toys our ds (4+2)play with:
Brio - free from friend, lego (used to be DH's), water/pots/ladles, garage and little cars. Ds2 loves puzzles and teddy bears and both do parties with a platic tea set.
what they do have a lot of is books...the result of an extended period of rewards during ds1's potty training....

oh, food treats - waste of time with ds1 who is a human dustbin and eats anything - doesn't have a sweet tooth.
ds2 only has sweet teeth and would probably kill for chocolate, so sweets are given (e.g 2-3 chocolate buttons) after bath at a set time and never in between.

I try to recreate my 1970s childhood to some extent with the dcs - not too much stuff/wholesome activities etc etc.

However - dh is not on the team! He would buy the dcs presents every day left to his own devices. I've had endless rows with him about dishing out chocolate bars when they're in bed. He had a very spartan childhood and his parents were (are) the King and Queen of Mean. Yesterday I went to the library and got some books for the dcs. Dh asked idly, "Why didn't you just buy them from Amazon?"

The trouble is that dh looks like the hero and me the killjoy.

Choc bars in bed fircone! I would turn into a crazed fishwife if dh did that!

I've been reading this thread with interest and trying to work out if my kids are spoilt or not. The thing is we live in an expat commmunity abroad, so their lives are not "normal". We have no tv channels so the only time they watch is when we're visiting uk. We can't buy toys or do days out where we live, but they get a "fix" of this too when we're home. So I'm not sure. Day to day they never really ask for anything, probably because they know it's not available, but it certainly doesn't take long when we're home for them to start begging for things in shops.

Having said that they live in a great big house with a swimming pool which is obviously a priveleged existence. There are always loads of kids in the house (or we're at someone else's house) and they spend 90% of the time swimming or running around outside, so I don't see that they need many toys really.

It's a difficult one as living abroad means you have more disposable income (house provided etc) so you COULD buy them more stuff, but there is not much to buy really! I always get reverse culture shock when I go home - all the toys and treats aimed at kids, it's quite scary when you're not used to it. Definitely easier to stop the indulgence process when all the material things are not in your face.

For most of the year my dcs don't go in shops, only food markets occasionally, where they are delighted if the man gives them a free banana! Sounds a bit pathetic, I know, but they are so happy and definitely don't miss all the toys. Right now ds is busy taking a huge grasshopper off a sunflower and the 2 dds are making a house for it out of a box!

I was thinking about this thread again last night, and think that one of the initial difficulties is when the "spoiling" officially kicks in.

In the early baby phase, I only had a few toys to wave at DD. However, when she wanted stuff to do as a 6 month old, and later when started getting very feisty and wriggly on the changing mat as a toddler, I started producing more and more new items to keep her happy / in place. Often these were not bought toys, but just old tubs and toothbrushes etc, but I accepted that novelty was a way of distracting her attention enough for me to get her to do what I wanted her to do.

I need to find new ways of distracting her and persuading her that don't involve constant novelty, methinks, or I'm probably going to make a bit of a rod for my back...

I don't think that giving a baby or young child new/different things to explore is making a rod etc. Babies and young children are discovering and learning all the time. Presenting them with a variety of things just gives them more experiences. Obviously too much all at once would just be confusing but I don't think that there's a problem with introducing different things here and there.

I rarely buy toys these days, but then nobody else spoils our children so I kinda went over the top for the first few years and now my kids favorite form of entertainment is a note book and pencil.
Just goes to show they don't really want all the tat either.
As for the vouchers, why not put £50 in his bank account and you spend the vouchers on something for the house or yourself I've done that many times.
I also spend their birthday money on panto tickets or trips out.

I think that's part of the issue, Juule; at what age does the providing of new things that you've always done to broaden your DC's experience turn the corner and become spoiling? Is there a cut-off point, and how will I recognise it when we get there?

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yes i do.ds2 rules the house and stupidly i let him half the time for a easy life.it has to stop.i will read thread proberly later!

Agree about imaginary play. Dd doesn't really play with toys that much any more and for her 4th birthday we are getting some stuff for dressing up which is something of an obsession these days.

We used to have an annual pass for a farm as pp described and we used to go with a friend about twice a month. I don't see those kinds of days out as rare treats tbh as that is how we prefer to live as adults so why not dd - as long as we can afford it? There are some places which are a bit expensive and we might go once in the summer. TBH I hate going to the park. To some extent the dc's lifestyle will be a natural extension of their parents.

WreckoftheHesperus as you are mindful of this issue as your child grows I am sure you will just know when things are superfluous novelty.

And if in doubt you can refer to Banoffi's very detailed post

I would be wary of going too far though.

If a DC wants a bit of horrible plastic for their birthday or to spend their pocket money on it(and you have discussed other options) then they should still get to choose. It's a good learning experience for them about how much pleasure they get from different items and how solidly they are made.

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I'm also an anthropologist - but from the dark side - biological anthopology!

It was very interesting.

I 'go off one' alot when chatting in RL and most of the time it's not even worth it!

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