Are we all spoiling our children and letting them be the boss?

[myhandslooksoold]

Hello
I am usually a lurker on mumsnet (sorry!) but for the first time in 4 years I'm driven to start a post!
A couple of things have started to 'niggle' about the way I am bringing up my children (DD4, DS3) To be honest, I think many families have the same issues but are in varying states of awareness about this!

When I look around the DC's bedrooms and around the house I feel a sense of panic about how much stuff they have. Then they eat half their dinner and then say "Is this enough to eat so I can have pudding?" and then they seem to have 'treats' of some form or another constantly- it's drip, drip, drip of presents and new toys all the time from me, Daddy, family and friends.

Then today I went to my friends house and the kids were doled out constant treats of ice lollies, biscuits etc etc. She is my best friend but I am starting to feel like we can't be together with the children because her children are so spoiled- constant daytrips, snacks, lollies and so so many toys- her kids are really horrible and I wonder whether this is the reason.

Then I spoke to my other friend this evening (who by comparison to my BF is really strict on treats) and she said she did not want any presents for her son's birthday because he has too many toys (although I think he doesn't have that much). She made me reflect on the way I treat my children and I admire her because she has the courage of her convictions to say this despite the inevitable complaints from her son.

So all this happens and it has got me thinking....
I think I want to change tack on the way the kids are brought up. I think I am pretty good as a mum- consistent, firm, loving (still prone to tempers, screaming and all the usual stuff however!) but I feel 'victim' to the pressure to get the kids all the 'kit', invite the whole class to a birthday party at the soft play centre (instead of inviting 5 friends over for afternoon tea which I would prefer) etc.

I'm waffling here, I guess what I'm asking for your opinion on is should WE all be concerned about our 'soft' parenting that this generation of children seems to be receiving? Do we all need to be a bit more like my 'stricter' friend?

I don't encourage them but I don't ban it either-they work out quality for themselves in the end. Forcing it on them is counter productive IMO.

Depends just how tat the plastic tat is I suppose! The kind of rubbish that comes free with a MacDonalds meal (shudder) - yes - in the bin where it belongs. But not all plastic is tat. My DD was given a tea set in blue, red and yellow plastic for her 1st birthday. She and her 1-year old brother play with it on a daily basis.
Would I put it out on my antique linen tablecloth for the queen when she comes for high tea? No. Would I let me kids play with it and have imaginary tea parties? You bet

Mine loved the McDonald meal tat-they hardly ever got it and it would have been horrible to bin it. It was a 9 minute wonder-they had their fun and forgot it.
When my DS was ill in hospital he played with a tiny, plastic bright purple skateboard for hours! They had an orange plastic tea set which had hours and hours of imaginitive play.I could go on.
I would hate to get home from somewhere and some one take my prize or whatever and say -'Ugh-you can't have that!'-so I wouldn't do it to my DCs just because they were little. They grow out of it in their own accord.

Sorry piscesmoon, didn't mean to suggest that I'd take stuff out of my kids' hands and chuck it... I was trying to find a comparison of cheap, mass-produced plastic toys that I'd happily buy / let them have versus the kind of toy that, as you suggest, lasts for 9 minutes. Mine very rarely visit McDs either, so the toy is treasured - for about 9 minutes. And after then I don't have any guilt-feelings about chucking it.

Mine have enjoyed playing with some of the plastic toys, too. They've spent hours in imaginative play with Polly Pocket and Barbies. They do recognise really cheap plastic toys are not likely to last very long as they've had stuff falling apart quickly and ended up disappointed so are a bit more discerning in what they choose for themselves.

Myhandslooksoold Mine have done that with clothes. Want something different the next day. But then the next day (or the day after that) they might decide that they want to wear the slightly soiled clothes again, just not the day after.

Bonsoiranna All my children have been very helpful at around the age of your dd and younger. Love to help out with anything. It's when they get older and the novelty wears off and they have more interesting stuff to do that it all gets a bit more like you describe your dss attitudes. Or so I've found.

juule - my DSSs certainly didn't help out with anything at DD's age - they have got significantly better, not worse with age!

I just read through the whole thread, while holding my 12 week old in a sling as she currently refuses to sleep anywhere else! Very interesting and it helped me make some decisions. I have been having this conflict over the last couple of weeks, even though she is still so tiny. I think I tend to over-think my parenting, maybe because I have a decent amount of maternity leave so have time to, whereas my mothers generation were back at work by now! I don't want to leave her to cry for any time at all as I worry that she will learn she is unloved, so if she want to be held, I hold her. If she wants to be rocked off to sleep, I rock her. Last night I decided it was time to decide what things I am going to make a stand on to help her start to learn that she can't always have what she wants, as soon as she wants it. At bedtime I put her down and let her complain for a few minutes, going back and stroking her face every 3 minutes and reassuring her that I loved her. Usually bedtime takes at least 90 mins of singing, rocking, feeding. Last night it was 40 mins of stroking/whinging and she was fast asleep, and stayed asleep for 4 hours! A record for her. I'm not suggesting tiny babies should be left to cry, it just made me think that maybe 3 months is not too early to pick my battles and start as i mean to go on, with clear, loving boundaries.

I am a Reception class teacher in my working life, and pre-baby I would certainly have said that children are too indulged, in general, in our society. I used to be shocked that 4 yr olds were getting expensive computer games for their birthdays! But now DD is here, it's easy to see how it can happen, I just want to make her happy. I am certain, however, that what makes kids happy is love, time, and knowing that someone is in charge and the rules don't change. Thanks. This thread has reminded me of that.

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Wow thanks everyone this is really helping me to process my thoughts. Jeffily I think you have summarised it quite nicely. I'm sure I thought the same when my daughter was tiny but I think I was starting to lose my way in face of the relentless pressure and tide of "stuff" that is heaped upon us from all directions.

I had a very brief chat with DD this morning about her toys and explained that there are some children with no toys at all. My DS then joined in and said "imagine if we had no toys in our bedrooms mummy" and I said "Do you know what, you'd still be incredibly lucky and privileged children" and gosh do you know, they would be!! So I will keep this in mind when I face requests for the latest toy, requests for the big birthday party or whatever.

Also I did have a slight battle with DS this morning (he wanted to put some old pants on which were too tight- I'd forgotten to take them out of the undie drawer). I think old me would have given up and let him wear them but new me said "no, you can't wear them and when you've finished having your tantrum I'll come back and help you get dressed". And I stuck to it. *Myhands" is now in control and it feels good.

Right, I'm off for a treck around the house with a bin bag in one hand and a charity sack in the other while the kids are at preschool

Banoffi your post about the emotional and material over-indulgence has hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I was inarticulately thinking- you are a genius!

I got very excited (how sad is that) reading about your victory over the boiled egg. It could be me having that same battle!

Let's venture forward together!!

Wow banoffi - very inspiring - and sounds like your ds is having a lovely time

myhands - that 'pick your battles' thing is my mantra too. But I do sometimes wonder if it's a bit of an excuse for 'don't bother fighting it'. It is so much my default setting, I think I sometimes need to push myself out of it.

Re plastic tat - actually, we LOVE party bag stuff in our house - they get played with until they fall apart (ok, sometimes 2 hours, but sometimes 2 years) We keep it all in a box, so it only comes out occasionally - random assortment of animals/hoppy things etc gives much joy.

What I do do at birthdays (we don't do the one in one out thing - might start that) is very quickly remove anything that I know won't get played with (eg this year, ds got 101 bits of power ranger rubbish - he;s never seen power rangers and has only a passing interest) I put these things in a regifting box, and pass them onto more interested children. DS has only realised and claimed something back once so far...

ahem... need to stop overusing the exclamation mark I think...sorry

Spoilt children are created by poor parenting. Poor parenting does not consist per se of giving things to children, or putting them first.

To a certain extent children have to be 'the boss'. They have to come first. Their parents brought them into the world for their own purposes, the children are owed the very best the parents can acheive. Once you conceive a child your own choices, to a great extent, are limited and you come second. If my son wants a 'whole class party' and I can afford it I will try to do my best. I won't say no on principle. If I say no it's because I can't afford, it will be bad for them, inconvenient to other members of the family etc, not because I beleive there is some magic virtue in the word 'No' itself. Too many parents beleive that being a good (ie strict) parent means saying no all the time.

When it comes to the generational difference, I has a lot less in terms of possessions and opportunities. But that was almost entirely because there wasn't the money and there simply weren't the 'things' available in the shops. We are all more materialistic. Why should children be singled out. If children are given too much, that is only because we all have too much. Our lives are dominated by ephemeral crap.

Myhands What would have been the problem with your ds wearing his old pants?
Wouldn't he soon have realised they were uncomfortable and put some others on? Or if they weren't that uncomfortable - what was the problem?

Banoffi I regularly let DS browse the toy department or toy shops having told him beforehand that we won't be buying anything.

Orn I disagree with you to some extent, not really about what you said, I agree as parents we have a responsibility to look after our children but I really don't think there is anything wrong with saying "no" to some requests even if we could say yes. I don't think it does children any harm to sometimes go without something they want. At DS's school the PTA sell ice-lollies every friday after school, for 50p. I can afford that once a week but sometimes I say "no", because I want him to get used to not always getting what he wants, or sometimes resisting the urge to buy something just for the sake of buying it.

Before I sound completely mean and heartless, I apply this "no" to myself far more often than to DS, when I see something I could afford and would like but don't need, I control the urge to buy it and go without instead.

Also, children can come first without being "theBoss". Their needs can be met without their every whim pampered to.

I think a better way of explaining it would be that children's needs should be "the boss", rather than children themselves being "boss". Their needs should always come first.

I don't buy any toys at all, because of the 30 they get annually at their birthday party. Most of them aren't that great though, anyway. You can't beat a pack of cards and some things like othello and connect 4 for entertaining 7 year olds.

I live in Italy, and here there are loads of little "collectible" sets - bags with a surprise figure from a series in them - for sale at newsagents for about 2 quid. I seriously hate these and only buy them after injections! But many of the dss' friends have 200 of the characters or more. Is this totally mad of their parents, or am I missing the point?

Whims are one thing, wants are another IMO. If there is something that my children really want and have wanted for a long time I might well let them have it. A 'whim' is seeing something for the first time and wanting it at that precise moment. I don't usually give in to those.

I think that maybe we are using the word 'boss' in different ways then. For me it means that my life is devoted to them to an overwhelming extent and I am much more interested in supplying their wants/needs than my own.

Aha! x-posted omdb!

Humm, interesting Orm.

Like OMDB, I think we all have a duty (think this is the right word) to learn to distinguish between what we want and what we need. Absolutely agree that the materialism problem is a societal one - but as such it is my responsibility as a parent to help the dcs, as well as us, to avoid its excesses as much as we can (without becoming too hair-shirty)

I absolutely agree that "the children are owed the very best the parents can achieve" BUT I think that learning self control, the real value of possessions and other sappy stuff is more of the best than simply giving them stuff. Am sure you wouldn't disagree with that though...

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I love this thread!! Myhands and banoffi this is exactly what I have been thinking. I actually find the amount of stuff given to dd (2.4), especially by pils, quite sickening. I also find the constant 'need' for activities and treats (ice cream, chocolate etc) that her friends do ridiculous! I have always suspected that my tight Spartan attitide comes from my own very frugal childhood but you have given me the confidence to take action!!!!! She's my child and I need to take more control so to speak! I'm going to ask pils to cut down on presents (its currently EVERY time they see her, which is VERY often) and I'm going to sort out what she has and give some away.
We have had some rules such as telly only after tea, ice cream on Saturdays only and tea away from the table on Sunday nights only and she loves the novelty it....

Banoffi - very similar situation here with one dd (nearly 4). I think I am the worst offender because I just love to get her stuff!! But I am trying to reign it in and we have done some calling to 'go to the babies' (friends or charity shops).

The plastic tat goes into boxes in the cupboards and occaisionally it's nice to get a box of miscellaneous tat out and rummage through it. Now and again I cull the tat but it is an endless process. I don't veto tat (unless it was a gun or something) - I don't want to censor dd's environment in order for her to develop values and tastes - there are other ways to do that. Sometimes she is given things I would never have chosen but personally, I think it's importnat to allow other influences (within reason) into her life.

As an adult, I tend to aquire stuff too easily. We are on the cluttered side and although we regularly cull stuff there is still a lot of 'stuff' left.

I am definitely working on being less of a servant, espeically now she really is big enough to do more things herself. We have no tidying up though and I don't even really notice!