Unconditional Parenting in a nutshell (I know this is incredibly lazy)

[SuperBunny]

I am embarrassed to do this but I haven't been able to read the book and need some quick Dos and Don'ts til I can get hold of the book again.

I have read some of the old threads but was really hoping that some nice person could give me a couple of bullet points about unconditional parenting.

I will be very grateful.

I don't think competitiveness is bad! Did I give that impression?

"I think it is the person outside yourself who shows when it is right to smile with pride."

OK. So you think that it is not possible for a person to judge their own actions as being valuable? In that case we have a fundamental disagreement which I doubt we will resolve [shrug]

"I think that you are doing it in a way that you, and your child, are not consciously aware of ommmward but it works in the same way as verbal praise. You want to do your best for your DC and your DC wants to please you"

Are you saying that all dcs are primarily motivated by pleasing their parents? I would have to disagree very strongly with that. A child learning to walk is not trying to please its parent!!!!

It seems to be that you only believe in the existence of extrinsic motivation and not instrinsic motivation - is that true? If so, then "I would have thought it was the same in any family, we just have different methods" just can't be true. We are coming at this from a completely different set of values and the way that plays out in human interaction is going to be very different.

Another interesting one-then I must go and do other things! I guess you have one DC or at least close in age ommmward-what do you do with it if a younger one is getting his self worth and praise from an older sibling-despite your efforts to the contrary?

DS2 is 8 yrs younger than DS1 and when he was little he hero-worshipped him-it was nice because they had a lovely relationship, but it had it's drawbacks. DS2 tried to do everything that DS1 could, so consequently was doing things like riding a bike without stabalisers very early. We actually had a couple of trips to A&E with things he didn't manage, riding his bike with no hands etc! He was constantly saying, when he got hurt,'but xxx did it' and we were always having to say 'but he couldn't do it when he was 4yrs-or 5yrs whatever'!

I think it is human nature to look for approval and praise.

A child learning to walk is not pleasing his parents, but he picks up that they are pleased. I managed to be there to see the first steps of all my DSs and I would have felt cheated if I had missed it. Even if I hadn't said a word they would have picked up the nonverbal cues. I think you are underestimating your nonverbal cues ommmward-they are maybe even stronger than the verbal ones.

They are very strong with a baby who wouldn't have the language for verbal cues but is wired in to pick up non verbal cues.

i'm sorry, have been very rude and only read halfway through but i have a question... i like the general approach and would try anything at this point to stop the constant shouting and frustration (me and the kids) but how on earth do you do it with more than one child?

almost all the examples here are based on just one child but what happens when you have 2/3?

what happens when they want opposite things and won't give in ie; one wants to stay at toddler grup and the other wants to leave?

what happens when the solution to one childs issue means the other loses out? what happens when they're killing each other all morning long and the only solution is to seperate them, how do you do that without it being a punishment?

what happens when there's a time constraint? dd is a dawdler too but is starting school in september, we're late most days for playschool as it is, how do i get her to move faster when we simply don't have the time to go at her pace?

hiya pink

more than one child: yes, it's harder because rather than being a two-body problem when it's mummy+pfb, it's now a three-body problem, and that would give even Einstein pause for thought

But it's also easier in various ways - as the second (or subsequent) child stops being a milk drinking pooing machine and starts interacting they bevome part of the entertainment for older sibs. And (not aged 4 months obviously) they start to come up with ideas too, so that rather than you and oldest/older children trying to come up with things that will suit all of you plus a baby, there are as many thinking caps as there are people

Also, I do think it is a temptation for those with just a pfb to be so focused on trying to help their pfb to be happy - I'm not just talking about consentual living types, I'm talking about just about any of us in those pfb years, and if it doesn't apply to you then I hate you, you super woman, you - that they jump in too fast with umpteen ideas and don't let their pfb take time to think creatively in conflict situations. So in some ways, having more than one child helps your first child get better at thinking creatively.

oops, gtg...

can we help you with your specifics in this thread?

The biggest tcs-style family I know, btw, has something like 7 children. I lose count of them, actually (this is not my own family, I hasten to add, that would be just shameful)

ack - I mean - losing count would be shameful, not that having seven children would be shameful slinks off, embarrassed

I can't answer them PinkTulips- because they are my questions too. A lot of people HE so they don't have the time constraint but I would have thought the sibling thing was impossible-especially if they are close in age and entirely different personalities.

I also don't understand how you block out other external praise, even if you don't do it yourself. My DS3 didn't try to compete physically but he was a funny little thing. When DS1's friends came around (10 yrs older)they used to laugh at his antics and DS3 played to the gallery! He was certainly looking for praise!
Impossible to stop.

ommmward, my older two are 18 months apart... i never really had an opportunity to learn to deal with dd's personality one on one before ds1 was in the mix.

both of them are stubborn, exptremely so. and both with happily cut of their nose to spite their face. dd would rather wet herself and stay in wet clothes for 3 hours than go to the toilet, so telling her she'll go to school in pj's really wouldn't get any response at all... she'd go happily in them and not even care, which would be fine except the school has a uniform and it's hardly teaching her anything to let her know she can break the rules whenever she likes but the other kids can't

and now there's ds2 as well and if i'm doing something with him (feeding/changing/bathing)i simply can't track the older two down to chat to them about their behaviour... sometimes i do just have to yell from the other room and if they don't respond i have to use things like countdowns and threats to get them to stop attacking each other/breaking something/playing with water and soaking the whole house/attacking the cat.

and on top of that dd is a pathological liar, she'll stand there with a crying ds1 in front of her, a stick in her hand, knowing full well i saw her hit him with the stick and say in the most indignant tone 'mommy, i didn't hit [ds1] with the stick'... how on earth do i reason with that?!

i'm definitely going to implement some of this starting right away, i just don't think certain aspects of it would work with our lot. and convincing dp to stop saying 'good girl/boy' as a verbal tic around them might be more than i can manage... the amount of times i've had to turn to him and say 'fgs, she's just slapped ds1, broken that toy and thrown a huge tantrum in the last 10 minutes... she's not a good girl just because she did what you asked that time!

It will be interesting when they get to the age where real sibling rivalry comes in. I only know one family that try the TCS, and it isn't greatly successful due to the personalities of the DCs.
They are 3 DSs with the conventional 2-3 yr gaps.
DS1 is quiet and gentle, a peaceloving, very fair DS.
DS2 is a nice boy but strong willed and very articulate.
DS1 gives in to DS2 all the time, he is then to be found off by himself in tears. When asked what the matter is he say 'nothing-it doesn't matter' and you know full well he has lost out to DS2.
DS3 is a mix of the two but he won't back down and let DS2 get his own way-so they fight physically-DS2 wins (he is bigger and stronger). They can't be left on their own together.
I don't think the parents have found the answer.DS2 isn't too keen on listening to reason!

You have my sympathy PinkTulips-I know the scenario well!

case in point;

i made dinner for the older two (we usually eat together but the bolognase sauce hadn't defrosted so i let them pick their own dinner instead)

ds1 starts messing with his food, putting it in his milk so i say; '[ds1] please don't do that it'll ruin your milk' and he responds 'want to put it in my milk' and i say 'ok then, but it won't taste nice'

ds1 proceeds to knock his cup over and somehow manages to put pasta in dd's milk too. while i clean up he disappears to the toilet, by the time i get in there he's soaked 2 rolls of loo roll and blocked the toilet. when i try explaining that the toilet won't work if he does that and it'll cost money to get fixed he says 'oh' and laughs

meanwhile dd is sulking at her ruined milk and won't finish her dinner and ds2 has started crying. ds1 also refuses to finish his food.

i'm dealing with ds2 and he's doing something to the kitten to hurt her, so i say 'ds1 that hurts the kitten and makes her sad'... to which he laughs and says 'boy kitten'

I think it's reasonable to expect him not to be that bothered about cost of repairs etc at his age. All you can do is keep sending the message in his direction why he should/shouldn't be doing certain things.

I think if it had been me, I would have given dd a fresh cup of milk and moved her away from ds1 so that she could eat in peace.
I'd have kept ds1 with me while I cleaned up so that he couldn't create havoc somewhere else (could he clean the mess with you?). Keep an eye on him while dealing with ds2 and intervene before he hurts the cat?

Oh and take deep breaths all the while to stay calm

Just a thought. Did your ds1 deliberately put the toilet rolls down the toilet or was he trying to get them to help clean up and accidentally knocked them in?

i did give her fresh milk, she then started following me around hanging off my leg and decided she wasn't hungry

he's just started getting pocket money (irrelavant of behaviour) and is saving for a toy so i thought he'd be more interested in 'it costs money' than 'we won't be able to use the toilet' as he's barely potty trained so an excuse to pee on the floor is the last thing he needs!

he ran off to the toilet while i was getting a towel for us to clean up with, and he said he needed to pee so i had to let him go, similarily with 4 kittens running around the spilled milk needed dealing with right away.

i brought him into the room with me while i went to ds2 but he ran off, refused to come back when i called.

since i posted he ran upstairs with a kitten, i had to put ds2 down and leave him screaming while i dealt with that. i told ds1 that the kitten gets scared and sad when he carries it and asked him does he like it when people make him scared and sad? he said no and looked a bit sorrowful but 3 seconds later was hyper and giggling again and chased back into the dining room saying he wanted his dinner after all. sat him at the table and went to pick up ds2 and when i turned around he'd upended his food on the floor.

the only differance between UP and CP atm seems to be i shout less but feel more depressed

deliberate.

he was standing on his step with his pants down. he dropped one down accidentally. decided that was fun so took that one out, dumped it on the floor and dropped a new roll in, took that out and left it on the floor. as i came in he was in the process of unwinding a third roll into the bowl.

and no i didn't take 10 mins to clean up the milk, i grabbed a towel, threw it on the puddles, swiped the floor and then dashed in to him by which time he'd done all of the above!

If she was hanging off your leg saying she wasn't hungry - fine, let her come with you if asking her to help you and just sit down for a minute doesn't work.

Whether he's getting pocket money or not, it's unlikely that he's going to 'get' the idea of the cost of something at his age.

If he needed a wee and was willing to go to the toilet, could you have thrown a towel over the spilt milk while you saw to him? Or if you let him go and ended up with 2 rolls in the loo - well it happens with young children.

When you brought him back in with you did you say that he could help you or were you quite exasperated by this point. If exasperated then I think it would have been safer to insist he stayed with you.

When he ran upstairs with the kitten why did you have to put ds2 down?
From the rest of what you posted it sounds a bit like he's looking for attention. When mine have got like that I've usually suspended normal stuff and either gone out for a walk with them or sat down together to read a book or watch a video with them.

I'm not sure that cp would make you feel any better than up tbh. It all sounds like normal hectic activity with very young children. Sometimes it's like wrestling snakes (not that I know what that's like, just imagining).

Even if it was deliberate. It was because he found it fun, not because he wanted to upset you.

i know that, and no i didn't get exasperated at any point... just kept trying to explain to him the nice way of doing things.

i had to put ds2 down as if he was kittens up there i had to carry them down and didn't want to be juggling ds2 and scratchy little kittens.

i did throw a towel over the milk (in fact it's still there )... he just works fast!

This is why we don't have any pets. I just don't have the energy.

at least with cp i feel that i'm doing something about their behaviour, with up i often feel like i'm just letting them run rampage which is why i find it hard to stick with it tbh.

Sounds to me like you dealt with it all very well, then
So, what is it that you were asking?

lol... things have deteriorated since then.

they refused to get ready for bed so after 30 mins of cajoling, begging, pleading and resoning and them still running off and arguing and neither of them any closer to dressed for bed than before we went up i walked out and told them they could sleep in their clothes then.

need to go back up there now......

see this is where i don't find the 'let them live with the consequences' stuff works... i can't actually leave them like that so in the end they'll have gotton their way really won't they?