At 3.00 this morning I had a revalation: My wishy washy baby led parenting is a big bucket of poo.

[BroccoliSpears]

I co-sleep.
I bf on demand.
I waited to 26 weeks to BLW.

And as a result I have not had more than 90 minutes sleep in a row for quite a while now.

I spent many hours last night feeling feverishly jealous of my friends who all weaned on to mush at 4 months and "taught the baby to go to sleep by himself" and "didn't make a rod for their own back" and put the baby in a cot on its own in its own room and potty trained their 2-year-olds with sticker charts so no longer have 2 children in nappies. It all seemed suddenly clear - I think they are right and I'm a mug. A sleep deprived, well intentioned, damp hen.

i did pretty much what Cote did.

i had to go back to work. when DD1 was 2 months and when DD2 was 4.

so i needed to sleep as much as possible or they'd have been without a bed to co-sleep in.

that's how it goes sometimes.

they don't appear to be traumatised by it.

I wouldn't say you're a terrible parent Cote. Seems like you're doing it just right if it's working for you and your children. I'm the one making a bollox of it.

I agree with cote and expat.

I always think of 'baby-led parenting as being a paradox

Broccoli - What exactly is your expectation from continuing to feed on demand, co-sleeping, etc? In other words, what exactly is it you fear will happen if you put the baby in the cot in his room, and the 2.6 yr old in his room, say he is now a big boy and will go to sleep like big boys do, and here's teddy to hug him through the night?

Do you think they will have psychological problems?

(By the way, are you still breastfeeding the 2.6 yr old as well as the 6 month old through the night?)

i always see it, too, as the baby is part of the wider scene that is a family.

yes, baby has great needs, but he/she is part of a family unit.

I think that we need to have some respect for the parenting approach that BroccoliSpears has chosen. Attachment parenting does produce happy and confident children. I think the key is having a happy and confident mother rather than which parening guru you choose to follow. If Gina Ford is not for BroccoliSpears then it will not make her or her family more happy.

Prehaps the OP doesn't like the approach of teaching her baby, however hard he cries his cries will fall on deaf ears. She does not want to break his spirit and have a quiet child who has given up crying/ communicating his needs.

What she needs is a way of teaching her child how to have better sleep associations without going through hours of screaming. She needs methods that are intune with her out look on parenting. Only BroccoliSpears can decide what is best for her family.

As I have suggested before the "No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley is good for those who are following attachment parenting, but need some sleep as well. Or those who want to put an end to co sleeping without going through controlled crying.

"Baby-led parenting" means that parents should take their cues from the baby as to when to give him/her the opportunity to move on to his/her next developmental stage.

It does not mean that the baby's needs always take precedence over the needs of the rest of the family.

Well, horses for courses.

What works for some may not work for others.

Cote"then cut out night feeds soon thereafter and "taught" DD to sleep through the night in three days. She has been sleeping through ever since. Potty trained at 2.6 in three days and was dry at night a week later, all thanks to a bag of M&Ms (she had one M&M every time she went on the toilet). "

I had to smile at this.

I think it's highly possible that you've been lucky.
With our first child we tried the above as I went back to work full-time. He never reliably slept through until he was 3yo.
Two of my dds were potty trained at 2yo and one of them also dry at night at the same time. I did nothing different with them than I did with the ones who were still not dry at night at 5yo and 9yo.

I think you can try various things but they are not guaranteed to work. Maybe I should have tried harder but to have tried harder would have meant hardening myself to my child's cries and breaking them. I look back and wish we hadn't been as harsh with the older children especially as I see how the younger ones benefitted from doing things more in their own time.

I couldn't get on with the No Cry Sleep Solution, tried the unlatching to sleep the works but DD2 wasn't that keen, I think thats what finally broke me to stop nursing her at night.

I never get this rigid GF or rigid attachment parenting regime, why not just cherry pick the bits that fit your family the best. I mostly BLWed my DDs but would give yoghurt on a spoon as well, on here I was flamed for saying DD2 was BLWed as she occasionally fed from a spoon, why has it got to be this way or that way why can't you mix and match. Never understood that.

Sweetkitty - are you me?

I think they are all too regimented and aimed at causing guilt. With DS1 I was lent both Seers and leach and Ford read all three went slightly loopy and DH literally threw them all away.

Ever since then I have made my own choices without litstening to some 'expert'. Apart from my heart, because where my children are concerned I am the only expert.

Gosh, this thread is rather running away with itself now.

I am not still breastfeeding my 2.6 year old, and she mostly sleeps in her own bed in her own room. She comes in with me if she needs to, which is a little more often at the moment because, as I said, we are having rather an unsettled time as a family at the moment. I do not begrudge her that in the slightest.

I co-sleep with my 6-month-old, mostly because he feeds a lot through the night and the alternative would be to keep schlepping him backwards and forwards to and from his cot. He has only just been weaned and I do not want to limit his milk intake, he is a big boy.

I am not frightened of causing my children psychological damage by putting them to sleep in their cots. I'm just a very tired mum trying to do her best, whinging about it a bit on a website because I don't currently have a dh to whinge to, and taking on board a few of the very helpful suggestions I have been given on this thread. I have fed ds a lot today to try and fill him up. We're going to try some potato and pear in a bit. I'm not at breaking point and who knows, perhaps tonight will be better. We're all of us only a couple of rotten night's sleep away from feeling a bit shitty about everything.

As for the phrase 'baby led parenting', yes it is a bit icky, but it also neatly describes the difference between feeding a baby because they are hungry even though you're knackered and it's 3am and you'd really rather not, and taking steps to help the baby learn that 3am is not an appropriate time for milk.

Brocolli it sounds like you're horrendously sleep deprived and having a rough time. All the things you've done for your dcs are lovely . It doesn't sound like the routine thing would suit your personality, you're not wrong and they are not right, eveyone finds their own way.

We were very middle ground with dd, breast fed on demand but switched to bottle at 7 months, weaned onto mush at 5 months, carried her in a sling but never co-slept.

Implemented a calming bedtime routine in the first few months. We've been very very lucky with dds sleep. But I really beleive it's that, luck and I'm very aware of the fact that children can develop sleep probs at any age so I don't count my chickens.

I sympathise hugely. Have just gone back to work and feeding on demand and co-sleeping was killing me. I honestly don't know how people do it and work in a demanding job. I was delirious with sleep deprivation.

DD now nightweaned and in her own cot (but in our own room) and everyone is a lot happier.

Again it has to work for your family.
My sister slept in a bed with my mother till she was 16! Unbelievable but true. So it always makes me laugh when people say 'she won't be sleeping with you when she is 13'

Well Broccili I think the way forward is just to encourage more day time feeding which will take time but hopefully improve your exhaustion levels!

Hope the next few nights are better & feel free to whinge away.

BS - you have my sympathies. and i totally relate to your thoughts on evenings.
tonight i am going to eat tea with the boys and get into my bed before 8, well ok, soon after 8. i will NOT take my laptop to bed as i did last night
every evening is a tossup between having an evening or going to bed and every minute past 'is a stress must get to bed, must get to bed'

But this "feeding a baby at 3am becuase he's hungry" could just as easily translate into "feeding a baby at 3am because he doesn't know how else to get to sleep". Maybe a baby would actually be psychologically a lot happier if s/he learns to settle themslves to sleep - who's to say? Certainly I know that my children's mood and behaviour deteriorates markedly when they haven't had a good, unbroken sleep.

I don't see how babies are going to be "damaged" because their parents don't indulge their every whim. In fact, common sense dicates the opposite is more likely. You are supposed to be the grown-up - you decide what/when and how your baby does things. And stop stressing. JMO.

Broccoli - I think even if you are cosleeping and BFing when they want it at night and want to continue you have every right to come on here and whinge about lack of sleep, afterall I believe thats what MN is for.

"You are supposed to be the grown-up - you decide what/when and how your baby does things."

But babies are not mindless creatures to be dictated to. They have their own feelings and needs that parents should respect.

sorry but that offends me.
I BF my DS on demand, co-sleep etc and don't "indulge [his] every whim"

Broccoli has done a fanastic job. There is nothing harder than being a mother.

I think there is a huge difference between a baby and toddler. A baby cannot be spoiled in the way that an older child can be. She has not spoiled her baby, but nutured him/her. Young babies have needs rather than whims.

The other suggestion I can think of is asking your health visitor if there is a sleeping problem support group in your area.

I also think when there are a few older siblings babies can be too distracted to feed during the day which often can result in the wanting to feed at night.

Broccoli - To each their own and all that, but it sounds like you are not happy with the current arrangement.

Nobody else can decide what is best for you, your baby and your family. I would only like to stress that it is not heartless to actively encourage better sleeping habits. It is not going to traumatise your baby if you cut out one night feed, he will not starve, but will adjust by drinking more in the other feeds.

Of course you are doing your best, and you obviously have the best intentions in the world. You will still be doing your best, with all the best intentions when you start guiding your baby into a sleeping/feeding pattern that will allow longer blocks of sleep. Even better, perhaps, since a well rested mum is a more patient, more relaxed, all around better mum.

sorry only just managed to post on your other thread. MIL just left.

I'm not quite sure what the difference is that you describe when you say " the difference between feeding a baby because they are hungry even though you're knackered and it's 3am and you'd really rather not, and taking steps to help the baby learn that 3am is not an appropriate time for milk".

But if you see the two as very different then I guess the way I do things is very different from the way that you do - because I would most definitely take those steps!