At 3.00 this morning I had a revalation: My wishy washy baby led parenting is a big bucket of poo.

[BroccoliSpears]

I co-sleep.
I bf on demand.
I waited to 26 weeks to BLW.

And as a result I have not had more than 90 minutes sleep in a row for quite a while now.

I spent many hours last night feeling feverishly jealous of my friends who all weaned on to mush at 4 months and "taught the baby to go to sleep by himself" and "didn't make a rod for their own back" and put the baby in a cot on its own in its own room and potty trained their 2-year-olds with sticker charts so no longer have 2 children in nappies. It all seemed suddenly clear - I think they are right and I'm a mug. A sleep deprived, well intentioned, damp hen.

Finding the middle way is incredibly difficult when you are completely exhausted after months of no sleep. I found both of my dcs were more inclined to sleep when they went into their own rooms (at 13 and 6 months respectively). Neither of them were able to stay asleep for any length of time when we co-slept. Co-sleeping doesn't work for everybody! The trick is to find a balance that works for your family: that means a system that does not leave you so knackered you are dead on your feet all the time. Once you get beyond a certain point of exhaustion, you can get stuck like that for years (if you never get any time off).

Broccoli, your dc are still very little, so I think it is quite common to be sleep deprived with two very young children.
It is totally "normal" (I know how the adjective normal can be quite controversial on mn, I know) for a six months baby to wake up often in the night.
But you can certainly work with the 2 yrs old to avoid waking up too often during the night.

As per potty training, I've never potty trained. Apart from encouraging them to sit on the potty in the morning (they both had dry nappies at night times when they were 2), I waited until they started to ask. It saved me lots of frustration. Plus, wiping bums, is not better than changing nappies, imo!

DD was pottytrained at 2.5yo, DS not until he was over 3yo. Don't worry about it. And as others have said, enjoy the time that they are in nappies, how many times have I had to let my meal get cold in a restaurant and schlep the two of them to the loo. (one after the other obviously, as they do not need to go at the same time, just ten mins apart)

It may be that you did the thing that was right for your baby and the 4 month weaning/sleep training thing would simply not have worked for your ds anyway.

I had a dd that slept through at 6 weeks and went for purees at 4 months (yes I know, I was young and naive) but with ds it was clear that none of this stuff was going to work for him - there was no way he was ready for solids until 6 months, and the way that worked best for us re sleeping was to co-sleep.

I do think you need some childcare though, to give yourself a rest. If your dh is away and you have no family near you are under enormous pressure and it sounds like you deserve a massive gold medal and bar of chocolate for how well you are doing.

Yes your subsequent posts have revealed a lot more about why you are under strain. And I think anyone would be. I think you need to decide which are the hardest bits for you and come up with a plan to work on these.

lol at this thread title

I am going to endeavour to actually put my next baby in a Moses basket to nap

Beleive me I sympathise as I did that 3 times whilst working full-time. It's exhausting. But if you beleived you were doing the right thing before, don't let temporary tiredness put you off. It is temporary, although it won't feel like it at the moment .This time will pass.

another vote for the middle ground

and a cliched reminder about the grass being greener and all that

being so tired does suck. felt like id had my personality vacuum sucked out of me and jettisoned into outer space, but hey, its starting to come back, so theres always hope

I moved DS3 to his own room at 7 months old and the first night I moved him he slept all night and has done ever since. He wasn't in our bed (in his own cot beside us) but I think we were all disturbing one another.

Am with you on this one.

However, two of the people from my postnatal group with perfectly sleeping babies have got nightmare screaming distressed toddlers. Because they haven't had props to go to sleep since they were six weeks old, they haven't found anything that works for their children who scream themselves hoarse at bedtime and collapse on the landing after 2 hours. It isn't all bad doing it the "wishy washy" way....

Having said that, there's no reason you can't change things if you are exhausted.

Agree about the middle ground BTW. To a large extent it's important to go with the flow - making your life as easy as possible is often the best way to do the right thing for your baby. Because they easiest way is often to follow the babies lead.

Yep, middle ground all the way.
I started out all GF - esque but found that ds and I found our own way that we were both satisfied with. I'm sure it's far from perfect, but we do okay.

Having a small toilet-trained child is overated.
(If anyone saw a harrassed woman with pushchair and other small child yelling "I want a weeeee" charging down the highstreet to Macdonalds yesterday, that was me). And that's after I let her train herself at 2.6.

Thank you all for thoughts and encouragement.

OrmIrian makes a good point - in my heart I do believe I am doing the right thing, not just for my children, but for us as a family. The tiredness is temporary and to be honest, just one good nights sleep would probably be enough to put me back on track.

Parenting is exhausting sometimes. It just is. My friend whose baby sleeps through is utterly knackered if he wakes up once, and destroyed if he wakes up twice, so it's just what you're used to I suppose.

Think I'll try and avoid excessive nap times today (them, not me - I should be so lucky ). Am also going to encourage ds to have a good go at some mashed potato and pear at tea time. Might help a bit.

May also try lifting ds into his cot once he's asleep tonight. Even if he just does part of the night there it might be better quality sleep for me with a bed to myself.

(Does anyone else hate the choice: you can either go to bed as soon as your dc do, and spend every minute of the day on either childcare or being asleep like some kind of souless robot, or you can stay up for an hour and do a bit of housework, have a glass of wine, phone a friend, and watch the minutes of potential sleep time tick away...)

I spent most of yesterday reading up on controlled crying. Couldn't start it now as he has a cold. Last night I was conscientious about watching for tiredness, giving him medicine, and making sure he was deeply asleep before putting him back in his cot and we had a much better night. Not brilliant mind, he still woke 5 times, but a lot better than it haas been.
I feel a lot better today.
Bottlefeeding and spooning mush in are more hard work than whacking tit out and popping some food in front of a six-month-old, surely?
If I can't fix his sleep No Cry Sleep Solution way, I would have to consider something a little more trying, as I've barely been functioning, but that doesn't mean all the other loving choices are rubbish!

I hope things start to get a little easier for you soon Broccoli.

xx

Well it doesn't alway work that if you are laissez faire about stuff they don't have issues

I was very laid back about potty training. I figured she would do it when she was ready.

However dd wouldn't wee in a potty til she was nearly 4 and didn't poo in the loo til she was nearly 6 (she would go and put a nappy on!)

She is fine now
But surely they all do things when they are ready. You can't force someone to poo in the loo for eg! I did try bribery several times but that didn't work either.

TBH I think you should do what is right for you and your baby. I personally was very happy with putting her in her own room as I wasn't allowed to breastfeed so needed some space to feed her etc. Plus she snorted like a deranged hedgehog at night and neither of us could sleep at all.

I really don't remember about weaning. I remember the advice was 4 months- I think I waited a bit longer. I gave her all sorts of things and let her choose/smear things around/nibble on things. I had never heard of BLW I was just too lazy to sit there for hours spooning mush into her mouth. Plus the dog liked eating up teh bits on the floor.

I do think following any doctrine so dogmatically that it adversely affects your life is a bit maaaaaaaad really . And that goes for both ends of the spectrum. I had a friend who followed SWMNBN religiously and was miserable. And you don't sound too happy with your way!

My HV told me something very wise. She said people who go down this route are often the ones who end up doing the most aggressive and hardline forms of controlled crying, because they have become so desperate and sleepless they will do anything to end it.

I'm not suggesting that's you, just that she'd seen a lot of parents in that situation.

I agree about the middle ground, and gradual change - for example instead of straight into own room, could you set up a cot with one side off next to your bed, then have both sides on and cot on the other side of the room, etc progressing to own room by say 1 year? (For the baby) Pick-up-put-down / Baby whisperer techniques worked well for us, they are very middle ground, helping the child to learn to sleep and comfort themselves, but without any abandonment.

Potty training is a different issue though - wait till they're ready, and then it's easier.

Also totally agree that anyone who appears to have it all sorted is probably weeping into their 14th absinthe every night behind closed doors from the stress of putting on a perfect parent show.

Ooh, essay, sorry, took forever to type, and you beat me to it. I think I was saying what you've just said Broccoli!

xx

BS, if it's any help at all - I bf on demand and co-slept with DS until he was about 5.5mo, when it became apparent that he was not sleeping that well in with me, so I would feed him til he fell asleep then transfer him into his cot. Am still feeding him to sleep (yes, I know, another "rod for own back") but it gets him into his cot every night and now I dream feed him when he wakes and put him back into the cot straight away - usually he goes straight back to sleep.

He is nearly 11 mo now and although he did go throught the night for a while, more recently he has needed one in-the-night drink most nights. But it means I get a good night's sleep, even though I do bring him into my bed for the early morning feed and still bf on demand. DS is also a bit hit and miss with the solid food - tried BLW but he wasn't having any of it, he wanted pulp. He's better now, eats my apple instead of the slice I cut for him!

Hope some of that might help - and I don't think your method is wishy-washy at all!

I really sympathise with you point brocilli about whether you have some sleep, but no life...or vice versa! My dh is also away a lot (miiltary wife here...)and I have a long work commute (although only one toddler who mostly sleeps)and I feel your pain; sleep or watch crap TV?? It sounds like you have a lot on your plate and perhaps a couple of mornings a week at nursery for your older dc may give you a break?

Re potty-training. I was much more rigid with my first child. I tried to start potty-training at 2yrs 3m. Was awful. Really hard work but because 'it was the right thing to do' we persevered. Ended up with a child who still wore nappies in bed until he was 4, and soiled his pants regularly until he was nearly 9. Second and third time round I left it until they were ready - in DD's case nearly 3, in DS#2's case nearly 4! And they did it overnight with no hassle and no upset. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of 'accidents' they have had.

But my mother shook her head and dropped constant hints about how late it was. Because it wasn't the right way to do it. But who gives a toss? It worked and everyone was happy.

It isn't always best to impose a regime on a child and try to make them stick to it. Pointless. They know their own needs at least as well as you do.

oh you poor thing, you sound knackered. imo and ime, this 'doing the right thing' works so long as you put yourself high up on the list. if you're doing the right thing for everyone else, you're likely doing the wrong thing for you, iykwim? so you need to work out what you want (ie sleep) and get towards that.

how could you start? i don't know much about bfing, unf.

Totally agree with aitch about putting yourself high up on the list. I remember being quite happy of waking up often for a tiny baby, but less so for a 10 months old (was getting overtired). So I worked towards solving that (gosh I had never given so much thought into solving a "problem" before ).

OrmIrian is very wise. I heart her.