Does anyone do Unconditional Parenting with a 2 year old??

[nappyaddict]

There seems to be a lot of explaining things for it to work and I just don't think a 2 year old has the understanding for it to work. Would love to be proved wrong though

Notanexcitingname - do you walk to nursery or go in the car though? cos we walk and i think it might be a bit neglectful to walk him to nursery in just his nappy!!

If your DS does something he shouldn't do say things like do you think you should be doing that or do you think it might be better if you did this instead?

No-he is very self destructive.
If he listened to reason he wouldn't get into the messes that he gets into. However he is an adult so he has to get on with it.

Well, I don't know him so can't really comment but presumably he isn't just being perverse so maybe the reasoning that is being put to him doesn't make sense to him. He must have his own ideas/reasons for doing what he does. Some people are just not on the same wavelength and it's difficult to understand why they do what they do. Which makes it difficult to stand by and watch if you can see that they are being self-destructive. I think in that situation all you can do is persevere with trying to reason with them or find someone who is on their wavelength and hope that at some point something happens that stops the self-destructive behaviour.

Oh, that went on a bit didn't it.
Think I'll post it anyway.

I think he just learns his lessons in life the hard way!
I think those who have reasonable DCs should celebrate the fact, but acknowledge that they are lucky-it simply doesn't work with all personalities.

Doesn't mean you have to stop trying, though

Abbey - what are you expecting when you say it doesn't work?

I reason with my children in the hope that I might guide them to understanding of things so they can then make their own choices. There is no guarantee that they will make the choices that I want them to but somewhere along the way I hope that I might be able to see why they made their choice and why they think mine is wrong. If I believe that what I'm asking them to do is in their best interest (or necessary due to the situation they are in) then I think I should be able to put that point across to them so that they will see why it is probably better to do it the way I say. But as I said it isn't guaranteed, especially as they get older and start to make decisions based on more than my input.

I agree with juuule.

The art of reasoning and negotiation are advanced human skills. Not every adult every acquires those skills, and parents that do not have them cannot help their children to acquire them. But, IMO, if you have reasoning and negotiation skills, it is best to start helping your children to acquire them as soon as possible .

I believe in reasoning and negotiation-I do it all the time-I also never give up! However some people are closed to it and if they are children you simply have to make the choice for them sometimes.
My brother can go along quite normally for years. The last time he went off on self destruct behaviour his wife was amazed because she had never seen it before.In that mood you may as well talk to the wall! The thing that stopped him wasn't reason-his step daughter simply said that she would have nothing more to do with him-and she meant it! He knows that my mother and I will always be there for him, and most probably my other brother. I think his wife would have picked up the pieces afterwards.However the short sharp shock did it! Sometimes it works better with some children. (I do not believe in smacking-in case any one is misconstruing my meaning).
I think some things are better without negotiation e.g. if you go to nursery you have to get dressed before you go. After all at school if they are doing PE they get changed-the teacher doesn't negotiate with 30 children!

You should still explain to your children why they need to get dressed, and what clothing is appropriate, for specific activities... and you can allow your children to choose between the items of clothing that are activity-appropriate.

nappyadict-as you suspect, we go in the car. But the day we were halfway there was warm. One colder day we only just got outside the front door, and this week he was asking before I opened the door. I'm not sure it's neglectful if you think they really don't feel the cold. If you think they're holding out on some kind of principle, then maybe different. But I'm not sure they do that at this age; but I don't have a wide experience! (sample size=1 )

If he does something he shouldn't do? Depends what it is. If it's something I don't want him to touch/have because it's precious to me, I distract and remove it (and make a mental note to keep it out of sight next time). If it's something that's dangerous or anti-social, then I just say no, with an explanation. I also try to give words to his feelings; so when he hit me last week, I said " I know you're frustrated, but we DO NOT HIT. Mummy's nose hurts now".

For something more minor/less important, yes I do suggest "better" ways of doing it, but I try to see why he was doing it. He was pouring his milk over the table this morning instead of finishing his cornflakes; I reckoned it was because he'd had enough, and it was interesting to see the milk patterns (he was pointing them out to me). I agreed they were interesting, but said I didn't want milk on the table, so "should we put his cornflakes in the bin, get a cloth and then unload the dishwasher?" So I said it was my need to not have milk on the table, remobed the temptation, showed him why I didn't want milk on the table (time taken to clear up) and distracted/removed boredom with a task he liked doing.

Any use?

Am very flattered that fillyjonk thought the earlier post was a good account of UC
I would hasten to add that I get it very wrong too on some days

Of course I would explain why-and also have a choice-however leaving the house in a nappy wouldn't be an option! As the adult you decide the choices and cut out inappropriate ones. They choose what they want for breakfast but it has to be appropriate-the cat's food wouldn't be a choice. I would explain why not, but if they won't listen to the reasons I simply say 'no' they can have a scream but it doesn't change things! If they want to go out in the snow in Tshirt and socks I don't let them discover for themselves! I explain my reasons and then it is up to them-put on boots, coat, hat and gloves or stay inside.

interesting thread...

I was brought up in a very disciplined way (not cruel or anything but basically you did what you were told).

Now I have DS who is 2. He is a lovely kid, normal 2 year old who is interested in everything. I naturally tend to lay down the law, and tell him things like 'get into your chair for tea please'or whatever, and usually he does it. I've learned how to distract or give choices or make something sound fun in order to get him to do it, rather than just ordering and then getting annoyed. He likes to oblige and has a sense of fun, so we have an easy time of it. However, sometimes he gets in a strop, like we all do, or just decides he wants to go his own way, and though I let it go a lot, I can't help feeling that there are situations where he just has to accept that he has to do as he's told (not hitting another kid, holding hands crossing the road etc), explain the reasons yes so he knows why ít has to be so, but I don't believe that kids should dictate to the parents. I have friends who are very liberal and tbh their kids can just be a pain to all around them. The adults' and kids' needs should be balanced imo..

I do agree very much with previous poster who said to focus on positivity and not being naughty etc, I just find it very hard to shake off those older fashioned ideas that kids should basically behave OK and balance their fun with the sanity of the adults..

oh, just remembered, on the going out in a nappy thing. Saw this recently
www.thelocal.de/14951/20081016/

about German mother arrested for cycling with her toddler who was naked because her DD refused to get dressed..

ruddynorah - so if your dd refuses to put her coat/socks/shoes on do you let her walk outside without them? even in weather like we are having now? how long does it usually take before she asks to have them on?

on getting dressed: IMO and IME, every time one forces clothes onto a child who does not want them, it makes it harder next time. Maybe some people have children who easily cave under being forced to do something, but my experience of himan interaction is that forcing someone to do something is a great way of ensuring that they don't cooperate well with you in the future. For sure, you win today's battle but at what cost to your future interactions?

And on Abbey and boundaries, well, the problem is that for you going out semi-dressed or not at all dressed until child is willing to put clothes on is a complete nono, but you are seeing in this thread that your opinion is not universally accepted by other mners, let alone by your children (I'm not saying your children now - I'm sure they are all past the point where it was an issue). So for pretty much any moment where a particular parent says "but what if they want to do X [insert unspeakable taboo here]???" another parent somewhere will be able to say "oh yeah, we had that. We resolved it amicably by doing X, or by doing Y, or by going to the cake shop or whatever".

Every time a parent is saying "NO! That goes beyond the pale", they need to be aware that they could be wrong and their child could be right. Even if they plough on and force the child into snow suit and gloves against their will, they should ahve the humility to realise that they may be imposing this suffering out of their own entrenched theories about the world rather than because they are correct in their interpretation of what is possible. Even "child wants to walk on narrow wall over 8 foot drop onto concrete" could be possible with foresight and the right equipment. It might not be possible today, but it might be possible to come back later with the right kit (and yes, I am descended from mountaineers, before you ask)

onwardandoutward; I totally agree. And while I was parented pretty unconditionally myself, I do have very strong memories of having to wear umpteen jumpers and coats because my mother was cold. I was sweltering.

gemzooks; I think that might be taking it to the stage of punishedment rather than choice. Since it was me who posted about taking my ds out with only a nappy on, I feel I have to respond. I'm talking about months ago; it was not cold then. And, if my child was even thinking about starting to look miserable with cold, I'd remind them about the clothes, and suggest again.

For me it's about giving your child the opportunity to practise decision making on small things, before they move on to big, life-changing things (you know, as they will eventually). With the small things you can catch them when they fall, so they learn how to make good decisions.

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We don't keep permanent markers in our (rented) house. But pen on walls or windows is fine by me.

Pen on walls is there till we next paint. I love it - mural land! Don't really see the difference from covering the walls with children's art work and stuff, which is how the walls are decorated higher up.

Pen on windows and wipe off with a cloth - oh, that's such a great game. You just reminded me. We haven't played it for months!

Another good one is going to one of those print and colour pages on a children's website, and do the colouring with felt tip on the computer screen, then wipe off with a damp cloth.

Crayola washable pens are your friend :-)

Drawing on white bed sheets is also really fun. That's a biiiiiig canvas. And it all comes off in the wash.

I think the question at root of all this is whether you want your house to look like a civilised adult centred house or a rather wild kindergarten. If the latter, then have at it with the drawing implements. If the former, then you need to work out carefully which aspects of the house you'd rather weren't written on, and how to make the ok bits really attractive for colouring, like the windows probably.

We don't keep permanent markers in our (rented) house. But pen on walls or windows is fine by me.

Pen on walls is there till we next paint. I love it - mural land! Don't really see the difference from covering the walls with children's art work and stuff, which is how the walls are decorated higher up.

Pen on windows and wipe off with a cloth - oh, that's such a great game. You just reminded me. We haven't played it for months!

Another good one is going to one of those print and colour pages on a children's website, and do the colouring with felt tip on the computer screen, then wipe off with a damp cloth.

Crayola washable pens are your friend :-)

Drawing on white bed sheets is also really fun. That's a biiiiiig canvas. And it all comes off in the wash.

I think the question at root of all this is whether you want your house to look like a civilised adult centred house or a rather wild kindergarten. If the latter, then have at it with the drawing implements. If the former, then you need to work out carefully which aspects of the house you'd rather weren't written on, and how to make the ok bits really attractive for colouring, like the windows probably.

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I'd have done the same as you, pitchounette.
I would also have said that it makes me sad if they draw all over the furniture or walls. Also let them know that if they draw on paper you can keep their drawings. Give them a folder to keep them in or put them up on the wall.
Marker pens, felt tips were put out of their reach until I trusted that they wouldn't draw on things they shouldn't. Washable felt tips were a boon.
My 5yo is currently going through a phase of drawing on the walls with pencil. Squiggly lines are her speciality at the moment. While I admire her artwork, I also keep reminding her that the walls are not really the right place to draw/write.

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I am afraid that drawing on walls, bedsheets etc is a big 'No' from me!! That is taking free expression too far! These things never become an issue if you gently nip it in the bud as soon as it starts. As a family you find a way of living together and you all respect each other. It depends what you view as important. I expect I am very lax on some things that others view as important. I don't think it does DCs any harm to know that there are certain things that you are not going to put up with. If you like DCs drawing on your walls, that is fine-although I think you need to point out they can only do it at home!
I think it all comes down to nature rather than nurture anyway. You can have the loveliest of DCs from dreadful backgrounds and horrible little brats from lovely people.

notanexciting name, didn't mean to imply you did something wrong, I just really thought that article about the German woman taking her kid out naked on the bike was interesting..

Does UC parenting imply you can't say no to your child, then? Like they ask for something and you have to say yes? Or can you say no and just explain why (which is what I do)..