You can always tell some women are childless by the fact that they....

[NinaInCognito]

...get in the way of you when you are in the supermarket dragging around a pram, trolley and fiddly child and then they sneer down at you with their basket full of organic lettuce, baguettes and mini-tampons while your trolley is loaded with nappies, a giant pot of Sudocrem and enough chocolate bars to re-sink the Titanic.

You then have to manoever around them while they continue said sneering.

God you can tell what sort of evening I have had, can't you? And I am embarrassed to admit that I used to be one of those women. I apologise to all you mums out there unreservedly.

Now for chocolate bars and MN......

Glad you came back Nina, to have your very reasonable considered and measured, say.

I think you are being a bit too hard on yourself though, your post may not have been hilarious but it was mildly amusing and obviously struck a chord with many women on here, both in regard to thier experiences as mothers and their attitudes before children.

NO ONE on MN is funny all the time, and most of the regulars get it wrong sometimes as poeple tend to do.

Of course in real life when we say something not that funny, people just move the conversation along and don't really say 'God you're not funny', as they'd have to watch the devastationon your face, and contend with other people thinking 'and you are not very nice.'

Of coirse on MN such consideration and social nicties often get ignored, which makes it unpleasant and uncomfortable at tiemes.

Personally I think that just because we are on the internet doesn't mean we should ignore the impact of our words on the people we are interacting with, but I know from experience that this opinion gets trounced on here with the 'go to Babyworld, we say it like it is here' view.

Believe me I am not a fluffy type, but will not accept the view that honest, raw, emotional, intellectual debate and exchange of opinions means dispensing with consideration for the impact of our words and opinions on others.

Never that opinions shouldn't be viewed, but just that how you view them (and when) can cause real hurt, and some acknoweldgement of hurt if caused, can go a long way, even/especially when unintentionally.

Maybe your post could be analysed regarding what it says about you, your self esteem and image, feelings about motherhood and your childhood, but shit, don't beat yourself up about that, you and the rest of womenkind!!!

Lots of people agreed with the you remember?? Your thread only when pear shaped because of the timing of Aitchs post (I'm sure unintentinal by her to be the first in line, to make you feel belittled) but unfortunately you did feel belittled and the argie bargie ensued.

Your only mistake was not to be funny enough for some.

And as an aside am I the only person now thinking 'Childless, is now an offensive, hurtful term?'FFS.

I have shopped in the Canary Wharf branch of Waitrose. It is full of smartly dressed people as obviously it attracts an office crowd. You do get the impression that lots of them are single and in a hurry.

I have also found myself feeling like I am a stranger in a strange land when I am there - and that's even when I am without children on tow

Thanks for that Communion - I agree with everything you said here - and I think I did forget to see the positive posts!

I've been in CW Waitrose when I worked near there, and have to confess if I was in a rush to get back to the office etc may well have charged past those in less of a rush or who were hampered by dealing with children. Bit like the tube - so annoying having dawdling tourists in the way during the rush hour, but easy to forget that I've been exactly such a tourist in other cities no doubt annoying other commuters!

fair play, Nina, absolutely fair play. there were heaps of positive posts, by far in the majority, that was part of the reason why i thought you were unnecessarily hostile to me and responded to that.

however, if you want to know why i wouldn't have ever let your OP just lie without challenging it and therefore the chink in my armour if you like... my good pal, beautiful, thin, successful, childless and miserable with it was waiting to find out if her IVF treatment was successful. and it wasn't... and i'm so gutted for her it's not true. but if you saw her on Canary Wharf (actually Tower Bridge is her hang-out), you might assume that she didn't have a care in the world, because that's how she wants it to appear. so it's all artifice, isn't it? nobody's what they seem, sadly.

anyway, onwards and upwards. i'm being admitted to hospital today with pre-eclampsia and my baby (33 weeks and 3 days pg) hasn't grown in two weeks... so this all isn't much of a hill of beans now. good luck all.

Oh Aitch - hope it all goes very boringly for you at the hospital, and the baby suddenly pings up to 10lbs.

THe most important question: will you be able to mn from the hosp?

PS Oh dear about your poor friend.

Hope all goes well for you at the hospital Aitch, and that your preagancy continues well without further scares and anxiety.

The anxiety of being pregnant is bloody awful sometimes, I won't bore you with listing all the various scares, extra checks and hosptal visits I had when peagnant ecah time, but just summarise with: there was never any probalem in the end, just a beautiful baby, to then spend a lifeteime worrying over.

Aitch, sending you lots of calming, blood pressure reducing vibes.
Will be thinking of you and your baby, and wishing you both well.
Let us know if there is anything you need.
Take care.
x

Hi Aitch, no nobody really is what they seem, I agree with you on that. And I can see how people like your friend would want to change places with someone like me with my beautiful ds and I feel very for them.

Very good luck with hospital btw, hopefully see you back here to challenge crap posts soon, all well and happy.

Yes I was that person who always tutted and wondered "why do Mums have to go out when I am on my lunch hour - dont they have the rest of the day to shop"

I feel sorry for them now - they havent experienced the sheer joy that is motherhood

Good luck Aitch

Ah, what a beautiful ending!
Nina, you are being much too hard on yourself. Your post was not AT ALL crap. I read it and related to what you said - I'm not sure if I actually sneered at women with kids before my dcs but I was certainly not as understanding and patient as I should have been and I often blush to think about it. I've certainly had days post dcs when I've seen glamorous, childless women push past me/not open doors/sigh because kids are making a noise and thought hey-ho payback time. Aitch is obviously a better person than me and many of us
You both have other things on your minds and that was clearly reflected in your tone to each other. Good luck to both of you

Nina this often happens when you try to have a lighthearted bitch about something...personally I enjoy it but there are many on here just waiting for the chance to tell you what a little self rightous judgy pants you are if you go there - please dont let it put you off

Aitch has a lot on her mind but obviously right from the start wanted a ruck - lifes too short to get your knickers in a twist about something so unimportant!

I was in a shop a while back and a toddler was wandering along...one of the breed you mentioned was in a rush, tutted loudly and walked around him almost pushing him over. The mum shouted loudly " for goodness sake leave him alone hes just a little boy"...I have to say whilst I go out of my way to avoid confrontation I had to smile.

oh fuck off willy. just fuck off.

Here, Wily, here's a nice big glass of 'Get Over It'.

Have a lovely small handbag with just purse, makeup and a phone in it.

Whilst out yesterday I asked my friend to get my camera from my bag, she had a good rummage and then I realised the amount of crap in there.

two boxes of raisins
baby wipes
half a biscuit
a pair of socks
a phone bill
a shoe
five lipsticks
half a toy lorry

I could go on but won't..

Aitch I think you need to re-read my name (I thought you were off to hospital)

Sorry not taking offence - dont care enough

Who are all these people who can get away with a tiny handbag?

I didn't even when I was without kids.

My SIL can run around with this dinky bag and she has 2 sons.

Nina, definitely think you are being too hard on yourself. I (and I think most others if they are honest) relate to your OP.

I must admit that while I don't think I have ever sneered at people shopping with children it can sometimes be a bit trying. Now that I have my own children I am a lot more understanding of the tricky balancing act involved in shopping and entertaining young children in not easy circumstances but when other people's children are behaving badly it is really annoying.

Last night I was running very late and needed to get dinner before picking up the DCs and someone's children were running amok in the aisles and while no sneering was involved I have no doubt that the mum could sense my irritation...

We've all been there and mine are certainly not angels all the time either but if your children are getting under other peoples' feet you do have to understand that they probably have their own pressing circumstances and that even if you think your children are the cutest things ever and that their ramming other people's ankles with the trolley is just them being kids (which I am sure yours wouldn't do) then the other people are going to get peeved.

I now dread other peoples teenagers but hey I have that joy to come.

I often catch myself looking derisively at those busy sneering women then realise I would love their shoes, small waists, flat tummies, banks accounts and the prospect of shagging someone different But I wouldnt swap places for the world if you had told me that 10 years ago I would have thought you were mad "what me with children - no way!!"

Off to have a large bacardi flavoured glass of would have got over it if id actually cared

Aitch for your friend. Been there too many times, hope things turn out for her the way they eventually did for me...

...and wishing you and your babe tons of luck. Will be thinking of you.

I don't know why anyone would be suprisesd at the thought of 'women who do not have children' sneering at mothers and their kids, (although sneering does conjure up particuarly unpleasnt responses), as there is plenty of sneering/judgment that goes on of women woth thier children by other women with thier children.

Just look at MN, it's riddled with it.

Well said, and very self-aware Nina.

Oh, Aitch, will be thinking of you.

Wily - there have been some misjudgments on this thread, but in re-starting the 'ruck' with a woman who has just posted that she seriously fears for the health of her unborn child, you have made a truly spectacular one. What a total shithead you are.

Aitch, best wishes for you and your baby.

AITCH! So sorry I missed this - guess you've gone now - will be thinking of you and little bump and hope so so much that everything is ok.

Wily - I rarely get riled on her , but you can just fuck off.