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The Motherhood Delusion

589 replies

SantaLucia · 07/08/2008 17:37

A thread to safely house all the thoughts that you are ashamed to admit. Example:

Why did we have children?

When does it all become worth it?

The day my child was born was NOT the best day of my life (it was my wedding) and I absolutely remember the pain and the boredom of being in hospital.

I can't be bothered reading about child development.

The health visitor is not worth a trip in the rain with a sleeping baby.

Thank goodness I'm over that "newborn" stage. Roll on year 5!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Niceychops · 13/08/2008 13:56

time to reread AK from a mother's POV! hell of a good book.

roseability · 13/08/2008 13:56

Is any kitchen erotic motherinferior?

I've always had a fantasy of being shagged by Gordon Ramsay over my kitchen table

MrsTittleMouse · 13/08/2008 13:58

It's interesting - I was just thinking the other day about how my life would have been in Victorian times (or before). Even Queen Victoria herself hated the constant relentless pregnancies, but could do nothing about them (I suppose that "nice" women like her didn't know/weren't allowed to use condoms). I really don't do well in pregnancy (I'm in the third trimester of my second right now) and the thought that I would have been doing this since I was 20ish and would be until menopause is so grim that I can bearly think about it.

I do count myself very lucky that I have been able to enter motherhood through choice and with my eyes open. Even though I do find the whole endlessness of it tough. DH works hard in work, but it's the constant vigilence (sp?) thing that really wears me down sometimes. And I'm lucky enough to have a DH who isn't above doing housework and supportive parents who babysit DD to let us have some time together.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

roseability · 13/08/2008 14:00

My husband told me the other day that it is harder to go to work with no sleep than look after kids with no sleep. I think he was hinting that I should be the one to get up with my DS in the night (which most of the time I do)

Now don't get me wrong my hubby is a very caring and supportive man. He cooks (although he most definately dosen't clean!) and spends time with DS so that I get a break etc etc BUT really

raggety · 13/08/2008 14:01

That's interesting Roseability and Fennel. I'm sure women had it worse years ago. I am not very well read but I've always thought it was interesting during the last century that Victorian women with PND were deemed to be 'hysterical'/mad and put into institutions and given ECT (although it may have helped some of them). Plus the unmarried mothers who were treated in the same way.

I think you are lucky in your partner and lucky in both your jobs, MI. There are enlightened men and there are enlightened organisations. They are often organisations who are looking for the best people and are willing to offer good working practices and flexibility in order to attract them. It is interesting also what Fennel has said about Sweden. Even with government encouragement, men's behaviour is difficult to change. I can't see any government, particularly not ours and not in this economic climate, enforcing flexible working rights for men.

Things are getting better, slowly, but for people who don't have access to the type of job/organisation which supports parenthood, the only foolproof method that exists currently for women to maintain a career, and an identity other than motherhood, is to go back asap after the birth, continue with your full-time career, act as if you don't have children, secure (and be able to afford) full-time child-care and domestic help, or a house-husband, such that you are not totally exhausted by trying to do everything at the same time. You miss out on spending a lot of time with your children but you keep your career, your financial independence, your identity. You are effectively a weekend parent (if that) but you do have a family to enjoy on high-days and holidays and someone else does the drudge work. We will call this the Xenia option.

Or, you want to look after your children yourself, or you think you do, or you think you should, or you fall for an idea of motherhood based solely on tv advertisements for nappies showing perfect mothers cuddling perfect babies, or you can't afford childcare, etc.....this leads you to variations on the other option, compromising your professional career in order to look after your children yourself, working fewer hours or changing jobs to work part-time (usually less well-paid), but this option may involve a lot of the risks we have been talking about in this thread.

Relatively few women are in a position to achieve the illusive balance between the two options. i.e. a well-paid, interesting, high-status, part-time, flexible job that still allows them to spend time with their children and have the best of both worlds.

For women who are single parents, there is often even less choice and employers assume they will be unreliable, due to childcare, and are reluctant to take them on at all.

We do all have a choice, but it sometimes doesn?t seem like much of a one.

Acinonyx · 13/08/2008 14:02

Ah yes. Predd we sometimes used to 'nest' by the fire with a duvet and a bottle of wine. I once had 2 students of mine call at the house on a Saturday afternoon while we were thus engaged. I had to answer the door as I knew my neighbour might need me. I was wearing just a robe and necklace. I couldn't invite them in at all as dh was still in the front room starkers and no way out except past the front door. I can't recall what amazing excuse I concocted.

Now let's calculate the odds of that ever happening again........

roseability · 13/08/2008 14:03

I take my hat off to single mums, I really don't know how they do it

motherinferior · 13/08/2008 14:04

I do take your point. Although I'm not sure I'd call landing my dear Mr Inferior luck .

raggety · 13/08/2008 14:04

I know that the flexible working rights for parents exist but many men, and women, will still be afraid that they will be inadvertently penalised/held back in their career for taking advantage of them.

raggety · 13/08/2008 14:06

I'm sure you landed (is he a fish?) Mr Inferior by design, not luck!!

Acinonyx · 13/08/2008 14:07

WRT to flexible working rights - the employer is under obligation to consider such a request but not to implement it. So not a 'right' exactly.

motherinferior · 13/08/2008 14:10

(I meant it puts him in an unusually favourable light. I spend most of my time moaning about him.)

raggety · 13/08/2008 14:54

I'm sure he's lovely! He may not be perfect but he came home early to help, didn't he?

Dang! Sorry, what I meant was: he came home early because of course he should do. He is an equal parent and keeper of the house, after all, and should pull equal weight.

SixSpotBurnet · 13/08/2008 15:43

Seuss - oh I don't know, it kind of adds an extra frisson (and not quite in the same league as doing a Michael Hutchence).

BlessThisMess · 13/08/2008 21:33

I have found this thread really interesting, especially from the point of view of someone whose first baby died aged 8 weeks. You would think that if anyone would, I would be telling you all to count your blessings and be thankful for your living healthy children. Yet, having had 2 DDs since (now aged 7 and 3) I find myself pretty much agreeing with all of you! It is really hard, particularly the relentlessness of it, and the never getting a break. I was sure, when I had DD1, that having lost my son I would treasure every moment with her, never complain, and be grateful for every breath she took. Yet I haven't had a proper night's sleep in 7 years, have never had a night away from them (DD1 has some particular issues which mean she would never cope being left with a babysitter) and find the inability to even complete a single thought in my own head without being interrupted an absolute torture. I would give almost anything (except my DDs' mental health) for some regular time off, to be in my house on my own to potter around, to think and dream, to go to the loo on my own. Wednesdays, when I go to work for the day and they stay at home with DH, are my absolute sanity day and I don't know how I'd cope without it.

What I'd really like to know is, what kind of living situation would take away much or all of this massive downside of having kids? I have this lovely fantasy of co-housing or community living being the answer, where like in tribal cultures the women are together doing their domestic tasks, there are always other adults around to call on for help or just to be sociable with, and your productive and useful work could take place within the community where you live, instead of having to go away somewhere. I've long said that having children is a strange mixture of utter heaven and complete hell. Surely somehow there is a way to reduce the 'hell' aspect and increase the amount of 'heaven'!!

olympicsnotfederer · 13/08/2008 21:40

lovely post bless, and spot-on

earlier on this thread I mentioned how hard it was to concieve my children (infertility issues and 2 miscarriages)

and I still find parenthood bloody awful at times

Seuss · 13/08/2008 21:46

BlessThisMess - that's a really good point. I was thinking about this kind of thing the other day (whilst stressing about ds1's future, he has autism). I was thinking it because I knew I would struggle for part of the hols and I know a couple of others in the same situation but we don't live quite close enough or know each others kids well enough to really help each other. It seems a shame that we are all feeling the same and yet can't help each other.

georgimama · 13/08/2008 21:50

roseability - my DS still wakes in the night quite frequently and I can assure you that it is much much easier to go to work after a night from hell than have to spend the whole of the next day looking after him like I did on maternity leave, because in the office I have:

a) limitless coffee and no toddler clinging to my legs while I make it
b) adult company
c) an hour's lunch break

and at home there would just be ... more toddler. Exhausting.

HaventSleptForAYear · 13/08/2008 21:54

hmm - depends what kind of job you have.

I teach and I can assure you that being dynamic and funny and motivating after a year of no sleep is harder than staying at home in my pjs (weekends)

HaventSleptForAYear · 13/08/2008 21:56

Blessthismess - I also wonder what set-up would make it all bearable.

DH and I daydream about a commune-like existence and then remember that we even need space from each other, let alone a whole load of other people.

But doing the day to day stuff is so much less wearing when you have adult company, for ex. when people come to stay.

Seuss · 13/08/2008 21:59

It's silly things - like popping to the shop or even having a shower. If there's more adults it's easier.

HaventSleptForAYear · 13/08/2008 22:05

Yes. We had my DH's god-daughter (18) here for a week and the extra pair of hands/eyes/arms was SO amazing.

I need an aupair.

Seuss · 13/08/2008 22:08

I sometimes think that - but then there is the flipside. Like when you want to slob about in Pjs and eat chocolate and drink beer (not that I'm doing that now?!?) - you wouldn't be able to if there was some fit swedish 18yr old painting her toe-nails by the fire.

frasersmummy · 13/08/2008 22:08

bless this mess.. I am sorry for your loss..

I lost my first little boy too. Do you find people expect you to be able to cope better with mother hood cos "you have faced so much worse and come through it "

I just wanted to punch people who thought/still think this

BlessThisMess · 13/08/2008 22:18

When DD1 was about 2-3 I used to get together with a couple of other mums, once or twice a week, and we'd cook the evening meal communally (all contributing some ingredients) and then take our pot full of food home later on. That was helpful.

Also when I returned to work after having DD1 I took a job-share with a friend, and we used to swap kids while the other went to work. That worked quite well too. But things move on, her kids have gone to school, I home-educate, she's changed her job etc.

My brother was going to stay with us for 5 weeks this summer while he studied a TEFL course. It didn't work out in the end, and I was quite disappointed. I thought having that extra adult around part of the time would make things significantly easier.