Unconditional Parenting

[KTNoo]

I know there have been threads about this approach before, but I just had to share this....

I bought this Alfie Kohn book a couple of weeks ago, and OMG, WHAT a relief! My ds in particular is like a different child, but I can see differences in the 2 dds as well.

I always used praise/warnings/time-outs. I had a feeling they were not working. My parents told me I didn't praise my dc enough. It is such a relief to not feel I have to praise them for every little thing. They are happy with "you did it" or similar. This evening ds(5) wouldn't get into the bath. I asked why not and he said he didn't want to stop playing. I said I understood that but he needed to stop soon and have a bath because we need to wash ourselves blah blah blah. He didn't move so I took the dds upstairs and got on with the bath. ds came upstairs a few minutes later and lay on his bed. A few minutes after that he appeared in the bathroom and started taking off his clothes. I didn't say anything, just helped him climb in. It was unbelievable. Before, I would have coerced/counted to 3/threatened no story etc, he would have got into the bath in a foul mood and I would have ended up all stressed out. Instead we had a lovely relaxed bath and story time and he went to bed quite happy.

I know this must sound like nothing much to those of you who have been using this approach instinctively. But I was brought up on a diet of threats and "sugar-coated control" (as the book calls it) so I guess I just did the same.

It's also much more relaxing to think before stopping the dc doing something "why not?". Today they brought their pillows downstairs and started doing sack races in the garden, and I thought "why not?" Unfortunately my mum told them to put them back!

Sorry this is long but I had to share my enthusiasm. Anyone else like this book?

how to talk so kids will listen

Worth it

hmmm but what if ds1 is drawing on the floor with a pencil, and I ask him to use paper instead, and clean up the pencil, and he says "NO"? Then what?

You mean how to stop hitting? I suppose remove the hitter and have a chat with them. I suppose it depends on the age.

I'm still not sure about the tantrum advice - I have got so used to ignoring tantrums that the idea of comforting the child in the middle of it seems odd. We'll see. Although today dd2 was kicking off because she couldn't take something out of a shop because it wasn't paid for - basically she was tired so I let her have her dummy even though I'm trying to limit it to the cot. It did stop the tantrum immediately but was that the right thing to do?

See, when I only had ds1, I used to remove him for hitting and sit and explain why it's not nice etc etc.

Now - the person he's hitting is Ds2 - or vice versa - and they are both looking to me for comfort/guidance, but if I don't separate them, they carry on fighting. I can't vanish with the hitter and leave the hittee to cry though.

My best friend has also recommended this book, I think I will get it.

I imagine in that instance I would comfort the hurt child first but make sure I had a chat with the hitter asap. Does that sound right?

Re drawing - I think the advice would again emphasize the talking and discussing rather than just telling. If your ds is old enough to understand, you can talk about why you don't want him to draw on the floor, ask him why he wants to, give him the alternative, be flexible, e.g. you can draw outside with chalks....

What I do is remove ds2 (who is always the victim at the moment- not for long he's already as big as ds1) and when ds1 has calmed down, I use his teddies to role play how everyone feels. I also use comic strip social stories to explain to him how everyone feels. He just doesn't get it otherwise.It surprised me when I did this how little he actually did understand about what was socially acceptable.

So far everyone quite positive. Anyone think it's rubbish?

Haven't read it but know ds3 would for eg just continue/has continued to draw on floors/doors even when calmly given alternatives and a very full explanation .

Plus with 4 dchildren I feel there isn't time to negotiate over everything and make them all "want" to do the right thing as opposed to sometimes just bloody doing it because i say so.

For anyone who uses this approach naturally or as a result of the book, can I ask how you would handle this?

My ds(5) never wants to go to the toilet. I don't know if this is just part of his general rebellion or something specific to toilets. He only goes when he's about to pop, and already damp. He refuses to use the toilet before we leave the house, even though I can see he is already dancing, then of course needs it 5 mins down the road. Today when I picked him up from his holiday club I asked him if he needed to go because we were going straight out for lunch. He said no. I explained that if he needed to go in the middle of lunch it would be tricky because I couldn't leave dd1 and dd2 alone and it was unfair to drag them away from their food. He still said no. Then of course as soon as the food arrived he announced that he's absolutely bursting. I reminded him about what I'd said before to which he replied, ok I'll go on my own then, which he did. I was a bit unsure about letting a 5 year old go off and find the toilets by himself.

I don't totally understand what the book says about consequences. ds took the consequences but I wasn't all that happy about how it turned out.

We have this kind of situation all the time - is their a better way to handle it?

This sounds really interesting, I think I might order it. I haven't used 'naughty steps' and sticker charts, as they never really felt right but I'm not sure why.
But I do use a lot of 'good boy' 'well done' type comments and am interested to know what the book says about that. Also, I use counting to 5 and 'if you don't do that there'll be no whatever' or 'if you do that again I'll take a toy away' etc. and it also sounds as though this book thinks that's not the right way either. I agree it does feel a bit like 'bullying' - I'm bigger and have the power to do that so I will - but on the other had it sometimes works without too much fuss. I like to know some good alternatives cause I do think I sound like a broken record at times, and use those threats too much.

Cornsilk I'd like to know more about your role playing with teddies and 'comic strip social stories'. Are they stories you have bought? do you role play word-for-word what happened in the incident?

As for the OP, I have the book but haven't read it fully. My 'waiting to be read' pile of books contains about 50 books, including Unconditional Parenting, HTTSKWL, Boundaries with Kids, Siblings Without Rivalry, Raising Great Kids, and many more!!! I'm interested to hear that it seems to be working well for you though. The problem with having kids is that you just don't have time to read and properly absorb the parenting books!

KTNoo - I am quite happy for my dd1 to use the loos by herself in restaurants/cafes etc. I see it as part of her growing independence. If it is at home and he is already damp then he has to see the consequences. My dd2 (2.8) puts her own knickers/clothes in the washing machine when she has had an accident and has to go upstairs to get her clean knickers as well. I view it as a natural consequence of her accident.

I would not describe myself as an unconditional parent though. (too red headed for that)

Also known as non-coercive parenting - google it.

I haven't read enough to yet decide if it's common sense or a load of boohockey! - also got rather put off by a netmum who bleated on aout it ad nausuem about how she has policies but I am certainly interested in reading more about it.

and then declaring it a load of boohockey!

My children have to respect my authority at all times!

In fact they should be a help around the house. dd has jobs to do before she then allowed 10mins playtime - and that has to be quiet playtime that does not involve any dirt or inappropriateness.
ds threatened to go a little out of line so we had to re-train him. We have a little electric shock gun for such unruly children.

KTNoo - is your Dc afraid of the loo?

Lots of children are, I remember I was as a child. Or maybe so interested in life that they put off something as boring as going to the loo till they can't hold on any more?

Just ask you LO why they hold on so long when you can see they need to go a lot earlier than they actually do. He may not know why he does it, so he'll have a think about it, and probably get back to you later.

Btw, haven't read the book, but that's what I'd do. Just because we don't understand why they're doing something, it doesn't mean there isn't a valid reason (in their mind anyway!)

KTnoo, another thought -

I'm not a bloke and have never had a dennis pennis, but perhaps it feels nice when you need a wee, as a boy? Sorry, am not local perv, honestly. Maybe hubby will know the answer to that one? Don't mean to be rude. Just trying to look at it from different angles.

My main problem with this book is that all the parents I know who follow it seem to have rather unhappy children who don't know where they stand. Yesterday I watched a ten minute tantrum/negotiation taking place over whether someone was allowed a certain treat, with the end result being a resentful child who nevertheless got the treat that the mother hadn't wanted him to have. It was really painful to watch and I felt that a simple no because it's bad for your teeth and I don't want you to have it, would have been a lot easier and less stressful on all concerned (and better for said teeth!).

But I am perfectly willing to accept that it might just be the individual parents I know, rather than the book.

ProvincialLady, what you describes sounds like this

described

I think there is a poltergeist in my keyboard who moves my keys around.

Interesting article kiskidee. I do feel that the parents I am thinking about have put their children in charge and it frightens all of them. It also made me think about my relationship with DS who is 23 months - I spend a lot of time playing and joking with him, but I spend a lot of time largely ignoring him and getting on with my own things. It works for us at the moment as he is pretty self reliant when I do other things. I wonder whether that will continue?

Sounds good but this sort of thing has not worked with my DC who wouldn't even think to come and find me if I went an ran their bath instead of standing there cajoling them to come up and get ready for bed. Mine would be more likely to think "good! mummy's out of the way,let's get naked and dance round the garden with spaghetti in our hair"

I think that perhaps letting children be in charge would be described by Alfie Kohn as giving children all they WANT, rather than all they need. This is not
seen as ideal by the unconditional parent.

Or I could be talking rubbish, I am very tired.

lol at objectivity's dcs

kiskidee's article is indeed interesting, something I will have to think about. I have so far been quite child-centred simply by not having anything else to do - no job, no family or friends nearby, not much housework (I mean I'm not suddenly about to become a clean freak just to demonstrate to him that I am a confident blah blah!). My day bounces between playing with/talking to him and not. And a LOT of being led around the park by the finger.

Have noticed that if I give him 5 minutes of playing/reading, say, before I go cook dinner, he is much more likely to stay put and be happy than if I just drop him and dash into the kitchen when we get home. Dunno how that fits in.

Sorry, appear to just be thinking out loud now, will go back to not writing my novel...