At Breaking Point with Constant Sibling Fighting – Has Anyone Been Through This?

[TheSinglesCollection]

I'm beginning to really despair and am hoping someone might be able to offer some helpful advice, or even just reassure me that I'm not alone in this.

I have two children, DD11 and DS8, and they genuinely seem to despise each other. They never have a nice word to say to one another and the constant bickering, arguing and fighting is relentless.

My daughter is definitely worse. She looks at her brother as though he's something she's scraped off the bottom of her shoe. My son does occasionally try to be nice to her, but when it's constantly thrown back in his face, he understandably gets fed up and resorts to deliberately winding her up and calling her names.

I feel like I've tried absolutely everything. I appreciate that DD is approaching her teenage years and hormones are probably playing a part, so I do try to make allowances for that, but I've honestly reached the end of my tether.

Last week, I took them away to visit my dad and his family. It involved a four-hour flight, and my husband wasn't able to come, so I was parenting solo for the entire trip. What should have been a lovely week making memories with family was completely overshadowed by their constant arguing and nastiness towards each other. Even being around Grandpa didn't make a difference. If anything, they were worse, perhaps because my husband wasn't there to back me up.

Yesterday was my son's birthday, and I think that was the final straw for me. I asked DD to do just one simple thing and wish her brother a happy birthday in the morning, but she flatly refused.

We had planned a lovely afternoon doing an activity he'd chosen, followed by lunch somewhere of his choice. Unfortunately, their behaviour was so unbearable that we ended up coming home without going for lunch. I then spent the rest of the day in tears, feeling absolutely awful that his birthday had been ruined.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I feel completely defeated. I've got to the point where I genuinely dread going home in the evenings and dread the weekends because I know exactly what awaits me. Constant arguments, shouting, fighting and an atmosphere that makes being at home miserable for everyone.

I know siblings argue, and I never expected them to be best friends, but surely this level of hostility towards each other isn't normal?

I don't expect them to adore one another. I just want them to be able to coexist, show each other a basic level of kindness and respect, and for our home to feel like a happy place again.

Has anyone been through something similar and come out the other side? Is there anything that genuinely worked for you? Because right now, I feel completely broken by it all.

Have they always been like this or is it a relatively recent change? I think a bit of going through these phases is normal, but you would have perhaps expected a bit of nice time occasionally.
I wonder if setting some expectations would help you a bit speaking to them separately and possibly also together and lay down some absolute ground rules. You might need to examine yourself where you feel an acceptable bar is - is silence okay? Is just yes and no okay or do they have to give each other please and thank you.
I occasionally need to put physical distance between mine or the batter lumps out of each other. But only sometimes, other times they’re cuddled up. I agree it’s very wearing.

They've always had their moments, but things have definitely got worse as DD has got older. I think what I find hardest is that there are very rarely any nice moments between them anymore. It's just constant negativity.

I think you're right about setting some clear expectations. I honestly don't expect them to be best friends or even particularly enjoy each other's company, but I do expect basic kindness and respect. At this point, I'd happily settle for them just being able to be in the same room without an argument!

I've tried speaking to them separately and together, but nothing seems to stick. I think I need to be firmer about the boundaries and consequences and make sure we're consistent.

It's reassuring to hear that other siblings have their moments, although I'd give anything to see mine actually cuddle up together occasionally!

You should seen the warning signs when your daughter refused to wish her brother 'Happy Birthday' and excluded her from the day out.

Agree with the PP re minimum standards and immediate sanctions for unkind behaviour.

Oh, I really wish I had! But having been away from their dad all week, I genuinely thought we'd be able to come together and enjoy a nice family day out. My DH was also supposed to be having surgery today, which was cancelled at the last minute, so we hadn't been able to plan anything else for his birthday. I just wanted him to have a lovely day, and it's so upsetting that it ended the way it did.

You need to set out the basic standard of behaviours and boundaries you expect from both of them and the consequences for not adhering to these. You haven’t mentioned what you do in terms of consequences at the moment. Losing screen time , not going out etc. may focus behaviour and be consistent with applying the sanctions and get your DH on board. As you say they don’t need to be best buddies but they should at their respective ages be able to behave civilly to each other and not constantly wind each other up.

We do already have boundaries and consequences in place, including losing screen time and privileges, but unfortunately none of it seems to make much difference. My DH and I are on the same page and try to be consistent, but it feels like we're constantly having to tell them off or take things away, which just makes the atmosphere at home even more miserable.

I completely agree that they don't have to be best friends, but I don't think expecting them to be civil to each other is asking too much. I just feel like we're stuck in a cycle of bad behaviour and consequences, and I don't know how to break it.

The consequences for the bad behaviour are going to have to be more severe I think. It seems like DD is the main problem though. Is she nasty in other ways? Does she have problems with friendships at school?

No, she seems to be lovely for everyone else. Teachers and friends parents are always saying what a delight she is. It’s just her brother than seems to get the brunt of everything.

Presumably you have already tried to understand from her why she is finding it so difficult to tolerate her brother so do you think you might need to probe more? First born children often look for any unfairness in treatment by their parents ( I know I did) such as later bedtimes/ access to screens/ pocket money etc at an earlier age. Could there be something like that festering in her mind? Does her father give her equal amounts of attention or does something like a sport get in the way?

I'd recommend Siblings Without Rivalry by Faber & Mazlish.

I feel for you, my children have a bigger age gap than yours and for 90% of the time - they can’t seem to coexist without arguments. The elder one tries to parent the younger, whilst the younger one tries to manipulate any situation. DH and I are always aligned and stand firm in punishments but sometimes it just feels relentless. It’s the constant snipping that does me in - to tears sometimes. I have no advice but wanted to say - you are not alone!

My DS is football mad, and he and DH often go to watch our team play. DD has always been invited along but consistently declines. I suspect that’s more to do with not wanting to spend time with her brother than anything else.

They both play football themselves, and DH is involved in coaching both of their teams, so I genuinely don’t feel there’s any favouritism towards either child.

I feel so ashamed and upset that they seem to dislike each other this much. My younger sister and I have a similar age gap, and although we’ve never been particularly close, there was certainly never this level of animosity between us.

I will take a look at that book, thank you.

I think it's helpful to try to work out why they're fighting. It is jealousy, competitiveness, attention seeking, boredom etc etc? If it is mainly instigated by your eldest, is it that she finds him irritating? Does she make herself feel bigger by putting him down? You will find it easier to address if you can understand what motivates them. It might even be something you can discuss with the eldest. I find as kids get older, treating them as a partner in solving the problem can help a lot. Work out together what she should do if she feels annoyed by him. Agree some red lines (we never call people names, for example) and consequences. If you notice a consistent pattern of one picking on the other, intervene really early instead of letting the whole dynamic play out.

It's also probably worth doing less enforced family fun for a while, because as you've discovered, it's not actually fun for anyone.

Have you actually told them what's on your mind? Like an edited version of your OP?

I just wondered, because I feel they're old enough to understand that actions have consequences and that they are directly causing you misery.

I think I'd tell them. Be explicit- you do this, you do that. Explain you won't stand for it any more, don't make threats just say it changes today. If it brews back up just remind them it's changed and you aren't standing for it.

If they behave at school they can behave at home.

Sending support 💐

Slightly different situation with my two DD. They are also three years apart. They were very close when they were young. But at around the ages yours now, DD1 couldn’t stand DD2 anymore. DD1 started to ignore or pick on DD2 while DD2 still looked up to DD1. I think it’s due to them in different stages of childhood. DD1 felt like a teen and DD2 a little child. They got along much better once DD2 became more like a teen, around 10yo. They are now very close again at 15 and 12.

It maybe phase they will grow out of and be more civilised towards each other.

I was never close to my brother who is 2 years younger.

This is such a good call.

Sometimes you need to name the behaviour with teens, and call it out.

There will always be a reason for this kind of bevaviour, though. People don’t have to get on just because they are family, but this level of animosity is (IMHO) beyond normal antipathy,

Also, how are the wider family dynamics? Do you and their other cohabiting have a rock solid relationship?? You can run into problems if not, particularly as the kids start to align themselves more with one parent as they mature.

It's hard to live with someone that you don't like, OP. I used to avoid being in the same room as my brother because of it. We started getting on better when he moved out... as in, we could have calmer, civilised conversations, the type that you have with strangers. Home was a lot calmer once he wasn't living there full-time.

Our mother has tried guilt-tripping and putting pressure on for us to be close as adults. If we weren't related, then we wouldn't care to know each other, because we have little in common beyond the same parents and eye colour. As it is, we live 100 miles apart and don't speak unless we happen to see each other at family occasions. I did try messaging, but never got answers, so I gave up.

I know that it's of no help to you, but hormones and living with someone that you don't like (especially in a standard-sized house, where there's little escape) is hard work!

I think it stands out here that your SS has something he alone does with dad & your dd doesn’t. She feels she can’t go because her brother goes, so I bet that invitation feels a bit hollow.
before her brother was born did she & her dad have a thing they did together? Or you and her?

I wouldn’t say DH and I have a rock-solid relationship, but equally, I don’t think we come across as visibly unhappy. We also both spend plenty of one-on-one time with DD, so I don’t think she’s lacking attention from either of us. Even if DH invited her to football without her brother, I suspect she would decline out of sheer stubbornness.

I’m going to sit down with her this evening and try to get to the bottom of where all this animosity is coming from. I agree with PP that she needs to understand just how miserable the situation is making me.

I know someone mentioned avoiding family activities for the time being, and I do understand the reasoning behind that, but what a sad state of affairs when we can’t even spend an afternoon together as a family to celebrate someone’s birthday because the two of them can’t get along.

What does she get to do with her dad? Just her and him?

Being asked as a tag along to something brother and dad are doing is not really the same thing. And if brother is getting one-to-one special time with Dad and she isn't. That's one area where you can see where the resentment might be.

Have a good hard look at their lives and if they are actually treated equally and with parity. And I mean this in terms of time with parents, time alone Etc

Every situation you've described it's been actually the brother in the centre and her on the outside. It's her brother's birthday, she has to be nice. Her brother's going out with her dad. Would she like to come along and be the third wheel...

How do you know that she would refuse? Why would he invite her to football if she has no interest in it first of all, why is he not inviting her or taking her along to something she is interested in that might be the cinema? It might be the museums. It might be just going for a walk. It might be shopping .... whatever it is that she wants to do with her dad.

Not dad's going to football. You can tag along if you like.

I'd have a long hard look at how she is actually treated, looking at it from the outside.

Literally can't be amount of hours. She spent one to one with her dad doing something she wants to do with her dad. And then count the hours the son has spent with his dad one-to-one doing something he wants to do with him.

And if it turns out that sun has spent 6 hours with Dad going to football and daughter has spent 0 hours with Dad alone, and was only invited as an afterthought and she refused. Have a real think about when Dad in particular has wanted to spend one to one time with her doing something she would be interested in.

You're spending a lot of time trying to force things that won't happen. Stop that. Your oldest is 11, you really should have learned by now that parenthood is nothing like any of us ever expected it to be! I think if you force them on these family outings, they will hate and hate each other to the point of not return.

Two things:

1. I would go ballistic at DD. Hormones are no excuse, she needs to understand the impact she is having and that you are not putting up with it. There seems to be a lot of gentle parenting going on there which doesn't work at this age past a certain point. She is being actively horrible and she ruined her brother's birthday. The fact that she is nice to everyone else means she really does understand what she is doing. You are letting her ruin your life because "hormones" --> bullshit.

1. No more family outings. Take them out separately for a little while. Some distance and breathing space will help them calm down and might help the relationship long term.

1. Make it up to DS. Take him somewhere special and make it clear it's to make up for the shit birthday. At age 8, a birthday is a big deal.

I think this is normal, but it’s how you manage it. Firstly, definitely consequences in place for the one being horrible. Be firm about expectations and repairing the damage when they have been unkind. Mine have spent whole days in their rooms contemplating an apology, but they said sorry and they understood how serious I was.

Also you don’t need to do everything as a family. You and dh separate them at the weekends and go to something one to one. Not every single day, but say, 50% of the time. They get attention and they get a break from each other. It’s not about taking your dd to football. It’s about your Dh going to the trampoline park with her and her friends, or taking her to see some girly movie she wants to see, or going shopping.

I wouldn’t have cancelled the birthday plans. Dh would have taken dd out and made her sit in the car. Ds and I would have gone for a lovely lunch. It’s still his birthday even if his sister is being miserable.

I’d also have a good hard look at your relationship dynamics. You said things aren’t great between you and your Dh, but you are just pushing ahead with these family outings and trying not to show it in front of the kids. Is your dd possibly externalising the tension she can sense between you all? Maybe she’s the only one not afraid to show her feelings? It’s just that it’s coming out directed at her brother who is perhaps the only safe target. Often the person we are angry at is not the person we are angry at.