Asking a mum of a problematic classmate to react

[WittyOrca]

Hi all,

I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this.

My DC is finishing Year 1 this year. There is a child in his class who has ongoing behavioural issues. He struggles to sit still and tends to hit other children.
The class teacher mentioned this during parents' evening, and my DC has also told me several times that this child hits his classmates.
From what I understand, the teacher usually removes him from the group until he has calmed down. As he had never been aggressive towards my child, I hadn't thought too much about it.
At the school picnic last weekend, however, I saw the child punch several classmates in the face—I'm not talking about pushing or rough play, but full-on karate-style punches. One child was knocked to the ground, and several others started shouting and crying because they were frightened. Another mum and I went to find the boy's mother to let her know what was happening.
She was sitting about 10 yards away on a blanket, scrolling on her phone and paying no attention to her son. When we told her what had happened, she dismissed it and even suggested that the children who had been hit had provoked him.
What surprised me even more was the reaction of the other parents. The parents of the children who had been hit didn't seem particularly concerned and instead suggested that the other mum and I were overreacting. Three other parents told me they had also seen the boy punching children in the face but didn't want to get involved because it wasn't their own child.

It left me wondering whether I had misjudged the situation.
Our intention wasn't to criticise her or tell her how to parent. We simply wanted to make her aware of what was happening and to encourage her to intervene, as we felt that this level of aggression shouldn't be ignored. We were concerned that, without appropriate intervention, the behaviour could become more entrenched as he gets older.

Was it unreasonable for another mum and me to speak to the boy's mother and ask her to intervene?

Seriously OP, you could hardly write a post that is more insulting to parents of ND children if you tried!

However, I still maintain that it is not an excuse for allowing your child to cause injuries to others, nor for blaming other children for triggering your child's behaviour.

I, for one, do NOT use my child’s autism as an excuse for him to injure others.
What a horrible, horrible accusation.

You don’t even know this child is ND.
In fact his mum said he was not.
You’re making things up. Please stop.

OP, something to remember is that on Mumsnet the parent who tries to intervene, albeit imperfectly, will receive more criticism that the parent who sat on their phone ignoring their child violently punching other children in the face.

You can’t win. Based off what I’ve seen on other threads I imagine if you had sat at the picnic ignoring children being punched in the face and then expressed concern on a thread here it would be - “why did you not do something at the time”
If you’d notified a teacher it would be “why did you embarrass the woman by involving the school, for goodness sake just talk to her like an adult”
If you hadn’t wondered about ND it would be “have you stopped to consider the fact the child might be ND”

Basically, you can’t win on here. I think most people would absolutely go get the parent of the offending child to tell them their child is punching other kids. The mum not giving a crap about it is utterly failing her child. As are the parents of the kids who were being punched and crying as they are effectively teaching their children to not make a fuss when they’re scared and hurt. Which is indicative of the age we live in now where “be kind” often actually means “be quiet” and don’t speak up even when you’re being victimised - lest you offend or upset. It doesn’t sound like you necessarily did the best job in terms of how you communicated to the mum BUT at least you tried to advocate for the kids being hurt and point out to the mum that she needs to do something about her child’s behaviour. This entire scenario would be totally different if the mum was trying to deal with the situation and someone butted in but that isn’t what happened- the mum was totally ignoring her son’s violent behaviour, why shouldn’t she be challenged and asked to step in and do something? She’s his parent.

I understand that you might be feeling triggered due to your personal situation.
This wasn't directed at you. It was aimed at those who believe that a diagnosis of neurodivergence can be used as an excuse to allow a child to continue repeatedly hitting other children. I have to emphasise that this wasn't a one-off incident.
A diagnosis may help explain a child's behaviour, but it doesn't remove the responsibility to manage that behaviour or to protect other children from being injured.

A diagnosis may help explain a child's behaviour, but it doesn't remove the responsibility to manage that behaviour or to protect other children from being injured.

And nobody on this thread has suggested for a minute it does, so why do you keep talking about this?

Importantly, this child does not have a diagnosis anyway, so I’m not sure why you’re targeting ND people. There are other possible explanations for his behaviour.

Just to clarify…I have no issue at all with you asking the mum to intervene if her child is injuring others. She should be asked to intervene.

There is no need at all for armchair diagnoses though. And no need for your comments about ND children’s parents either, of whom you very clearly have a dim view.

I used it to wrap up my conclusion. Again, it wasn't directed at you or at responsible parents of neurodivergent children.

Exactly my thoughts.

I also think it's reasonable to expect that only a certain number of replies on MN will be constructive.
I appreciate responses like yours, as well as those from people who disagree but present thoughtful, well-reasoned arguments. That's why I posted in the 1st place.
As for the rest, I anyway don't consider engaging with people who are unwilling or unable to have a constructive discussion to be a worthwhile use of my time. I'm happy to respond if it helps me clarify my own points or encourages a productive conversation.
Finally, as the poem goes, for the people who turn the blind eye on any signs of unprovoked aggression like @Mostlywilliow

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me".

It's shouldn't be necessary to bring neurodivergence into it. The key part of your comment is "responsible parents" - whether the child is ND or NT is not relevant, as any child can hit out like this for various reasons. It's about whether the parents are responsive and responsible. So the decision to bring neurodiversity and parents of neurodiverse children into the conversation seems unnecessary and like you are trying to make a connection or a point about irresponsible parenting and children with neurodiversity.

I do understand the points that have been made about ND, and I accept that they are valid.
It certainly wasn't my intention to link irresponsible parenting with ND.

I also don’t think it’s fair to link irresponsible parenting with the age of the parent or their socioeconomic status. Some of the worst parenting I regularly see are from the parents of the kids of the local private school. They come in the members club I go to and ignore the kids for hours on end. The kids are rampaging round the members lounge, causing havoc, outside causing trouble, etc.

The parents couldn’t give a monkeys, instead they’re prioritising yabbering to each other while ignoring the kids and letting them run round feral. Even when they see their kid doing something they shouldn’t such as hitting another kid they seem to ignore them. It’s all gentle parenting and indulging them such as letting them ride their scooter around inside.

Personally I had Dd young (early 20s), though was never on benefits. But I brought her up to respect others and be thoughtful and kind. I would never have let her act the way I see kids at the club behave. These parents must have money, membership will be a few hundred a month.

You raised a lot of good points, and I agree. After all, there is certainly no shortage of children from wealthy backgrounds who end up engaging in criminal behaviour.
Before this incident, the boy's mother made comments in my presence about wanting to have children as young as possible so she could receive state support, and that she did not intend to seek employment until she had the number of children she wanted. I interpreted those comments as reflecting a lack of ambition, and I wondered whether that attitude might ultimately have a negative impact on her children. That was my personal interpretation, rather than a conclusion about her parenting as a whole.

What fucking obtuse and offensive bollocks. Firstly I never said turn a blind eye. Show me where I did. I said keep your fucking beak out, which you seem unable to do and appear to want to ruminate about a parent you feel is beneath you, and put them right, your superior knowledge of all, yet simultaneously shit communications following you through.

And secondly to attempt to draw ANY parallel between a 5 year old boy and the HOLOCAUST is indefensible.

Do yourself a massive favour and go and have a sit down, away from the internet.

I’d interpret them as trying to get a bit of a rise out of you cos you’re clearly right up your own backside and she can see it. No wonder she’s yanking your chain by ignoring you. Good on her.

On a serious note: advising people not to intervene when a kid is punching other kids in the face is just another way of advocating for turning a blind eye.

On a lighter note: you're delightfully invested. I can't, in good conscience, deprive your intellect of an opportunity to stretch itself. I do wonder, though, whether this struck such a nerve because you were a bully yourself. The poem was meant as a deliberate punch, and you've caught it with remarkable enthusiasm.

(It does though convey a message of extreme consequences of societal inaction.)

Thankyou for explaining the quotation. I think we both know it wasn’t necessary but yet you still feel that drawing such a parallel is appropriate. Amazing.

Not intervening is not the same as turning a blind eye. It’s having the ability to understand and set boundaries, and weigh up a situation. You seem to struggle with that, and again it’s interesting that the other parents see something you don’t, and still took their children to the party. Gently, do you struggle socially?

And no I wasn’t a bully - but I have seen the consequences of the judgemental position you’ve taken on this thread - your views seem without empathy or understanding and yet full of non parallels between social class, and parenting. I don’t imagine you’ve had a lot of feedback in that vein though because you’re clearly having trouble with the concept of non judgemental observation.

Not intervening is not the same as turning a blind eye. It’s having the ability to understand and set boundaries, and weigh up a situation.

@Mostlywilliow So what should someone do when they see one child punching another and no adults intervene?

I'm not being goady, I can't see what else to do except let the parent know.

You seem to struggle with being impartial here because of your past experience with your child's neurodivergence. One of your earlier posts clearly shows how personally triggering this topic is for you. While that's understandable, it also seems to make it difficult for you to separate those experiences from the discussion and hence you're justifying aggression in young children at all levels.