AIBU - Need perspective: Beavers requiring parental attendance after camp upset

[Pinkballoons55]

My DS is 7 and has attended Scouts from age 4 (Squirrels and now Beavers). He has always attended independently and has been on numerous off-site trips and activities without any issues.

Recently he attended an overnight camp for the first time. It started at 10am and the plan was for him to stay until midday the following day. By the evening he became extremely upset and distressed. In hindsight, I think he was completely overtired and overwhelmed after a full day of activities. He got upset and the leaders ended up calling us to collect him at around 8pm.

Nobody was hurt and there was no aggression, but he was very upset and apparently tried to run off when distressed, so the leaders had to stop him and send him home.

We've now received an email saying that for all upcoming off-site Beaver activities (three events over the next couple of months), one of his parents must attend alongside him. If neither parent can attend, he won't be allowed to take part.

The thing I'm struggling with is that these aren't overnight camps or all day events. They're normal Beaver activities within the local area (e.g. a park trip) of around an hour in length, which is what he's been doing successfully for years. This feels like quite a big restriction based on what I see as a one-off incident in unusual circumstances.

To add some context, we have just started looking into SEND assessments, so I'm very aware there may be things we're still learning about his needs. Part of me wonders if I'm being too emotional because I hate the idea of him being treated differently from the other children or excluded if we can't attend. I also worry that having a parent there when no other child does will make him feel singled out.

At the same time, I appreciate that the leaders have safeguarding responsibilities and may be looking at things from that perspective.

Has anyone had anything similar happen with Scouts, Guides etc? How did you handle it?

I'm genuinely interested in hearing other peoples thoughts because right now I'm too close to the situation to know whether my upset is clouding my judgement on whether this request from them is reasonable.

(But please be gentle!!!)

Are you sure there won't be other parents attending? When we camp we always have parents who aren't leaders undertaking different roles e.g. catering, Quarter Master etc, this is in addition to all of our leaders who have children within the unit. A child with a parent at camp isn't unusual for us.

Don’t ever let people tell you stuff is “your anxiety”. You made your judgment that the camp was too long and then you doubted yourself when other people chimed in. You know your child best, you knew the best course of action but were swayed. Part of having a child who is potentially or mildly ND is making the decisions yourself and then advocating for your child, rather than letting others/friends/society yap crap at you.

Get yourself a thick skin. Perhaps ask chat gpt how. Menopause and many years of looking after a ND child will get you a thick skin but you need it now.

The bottom line is that you judged the situation correctly. So trust yourself in future, not others.

Just go along to the activities with him. If you can’t, then either do the thing with him another time or give him something else to do to distract him.

The only thing my son couldn’t do was camp. He can’t sleep away from home and has panic attacks. No issues otherwise. But no camp - no badges was the policy, which really isn’t very inclusive at all. He could have continued going, but wouldn’t have gotten any badges, which is would have made him stand out so bad….

No camp, no badges at all? Or just the nights away and chief scout badges? That's insane if the former and not within scout rules! If the latter, well no, if nights away are part of the badge you won't get it, but they don't all get every badge, so wouldn't stand out. Lots miss camps because they can't make that weekend, for example, and they won't get the badge either. It's a shame you felt like that.

Op, You've responded really well to the posts here. It's understandable you are upset, but in my experience as scouting parent and trustee, lots don't even go on the camp at that age, or have to be collected because they are upset. A parent recently mentioned to me a camp was the first one her son had managed to stay at without her as he was scout / secondary age with no Nd i am aware of, who always seems to fit in with others when I see him. It probably just seems worse because of your other concerns.

I have an SEN child. I hang around for activities even when my input isn't required (I sit around and read or on my phone) because very occasionally, I'm needed. 99% of the time I'm not but it's a just in case thing.

As a guide and brownie leader, I’ve definitely noticed that some children do find overnights difficult, even the ones you’d expect be ok. We try and be inclusive and meet all needs but a child who might run off is a real worry. Hopefully you can discuss what your child needs with the group leader so they can support him effectively. One of our biggest challenges is parents who don’t tell us about what would help support their child/additional needs and we are left to guess - we’ll do as much as we can to be inclusive for all children but we aren’t psychic!

They won’t have the staff to deal with him potentially attempting to run off again at an off site venue.
They’re volunteers, you know. There are limits to what they’re expected to take responsibility for.

It’s the running off that’s the issue here. I would go along and show support - if he’s settled again back into the short trips, I’m sure this requirement will be phased out soon.

((((hug)))

It's hard to accept your child might be ND. you're not the first to be emotional & cry & you won't be the last.

just remember a diagnosis won't change DS, He is who he is, your lovely little boy, but any diagnosis means you can better help him navigate this mad world & hus reaction to it.

One Step at a time lovely 💕

@Simplelobsterhat no badges, full stop. He would be able to do sleepovers in the scout hut (he did multiple school residentials!), but a tent is an absolute no. But apparently camping is an integral part of scouts….
We didn’t check if they would actually follow through with it, we left. Badges were given out during camp, so i wouldn’t be surprised if they would have followed through.

They are just trying to keep him safe & that’s a good thing. They want to be 100% he won’t run off. Imagine if he did run off & hurt himself, that would be awful for everyone involved.

As everyone has said this is a non-paid volunteer role. But it holds the same level of responsibility as a paid teacher.

I know they are always looking for volunteers - presumably one of you is home to drop him off & pick him up to the sessions in the week. Just stay & be a general helper. I’m sure the ones running the sessions have work & kids & pets to deal with.

Scouts and guides are full of adult helpers, ours used to have a toys for parents as they didn’t have enough volunteers so your dc won’t stand out in any way. They are being inclusive but also safe -They are all volunteers they won’t have the man power for 1:1 for a child who is a flight risk. Your DC’s safety and that of the others is their main priority and this seems a fair solution.

I think you should have a discussion with the Beavers team leader about exactly why they need a parent to attend with your son. He may show some behaviours at Beavers that you don’t see in other settings and that’s why he needs additional support. My DS has ADHD and autism and my DH attended Scouts with him until he was 14 years old. DH didn’t actually need to do anything, just being there was enough to resolve any behavioural issues that had been occurring. Once DS moved up to Explorers, my DH didn’t need to go along any more. DS is now 23 and in Scouts Network and he has got so much out of Scouting over the years; I’m glad that he was able to keep attending with parental support.

@Simplelobsterhat now, in retrospect it might just have been a very heavy handed attempt from the leaders to convince him to go to camp? Didn’t work at all with a super anxious child (unsurprisingly), and they might not have followed through. We don’t know, we left after that.
The leaders are volunteers, so I didn’t want to put any pressure on them/question them.

Hi OP, it is difficult when you realise your child might need more support than others. My daughter was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD at your son's age. I suspect DH and I have had to put way way more thought and effort into parenting than some parents do!

I remember having to pick her up very soon into a paintball party she'd asked to go to as she couldn't cope.

Clearly, he enjoys these activities and I think it's good for you and/or DH to go along and get involved rather than him giving up entirely. They could have just said he couldn't attend any more...

Oh just to add I sent DD to my school for secondary and as pp said while she doesn't need me there, she likes having me there (and as a too cool for school 13 year old, now wants me gone 😂).

Yes perfectly reasonable request, major safeguarding issue if they are having to give your child 1 to 1 meaning other helpers will have large ratios.
get your child the help they need, and if you want them to do activities then you attend too, really shocked that you think the request is unreasonable.

A couple of things to bear in mind are: as he gets bigger, he can run faster and will be stronger at resisting gentle and appropriate adult restraint if he is distressed. Scouts are run by volunteers who are in charge of lots of children at a time. If they are concerned for his safety, it is wise for everyone that a parent attends. Could you sign up to be a regular parent helper?

You are getting SEND assessments. IME, a lot of things become much clearer and you learn how to handle or pre-empt such issues once you know about a child's neurodiversity.

Maybe, it's a shame they were so heavy handed about it and put you off though, they should definitely be more inclusive than that!

Scouts/beavers are volunteer led, and pretty much free. Unfortunately that means they are not really equipped to work with anything but standard behavior. My older son (mild ASD) was ok at beavers (no camps!), but we had to leave cubs as they just couldn’t cope - he is fully verbal and high masking, but very anxious, so didn’t want to do camps, which pretty much meant he had to leave. In our experience, scouts aren’t very inclusive

I think it's unfair to say that scouts aren't very inclusive. Of course, it may vary group to group, but as a cub leader, about 25% of our cubs have diagnosed SEND, with a few more having suspected SEND. Some are mild, and don't really need any made adjustments to be made - other than possibly a little more time to process or understand the requirements of an activity. It's rare that we have to ask a parent to stay, but occasionally we might do.

What is more frustrating as a volunteer is that sometimes parents don't even tell us that their child has SEND (suspected or otherwise). I can understand it to some extent, as they don't want their child to be thought of differently, but it helps so much if we can understand why a child might react the way they do, or if they need a little additional help. We had a child at cubs for over 2 years before his mum told us (after we'd been struggling with his behaviour for some time) that he has a one-to-one at school, and has done for years. For some reason, she expected us to know how to help him, and to have the numbers of volunteers to provide one-to-one, without even telling us he may require extra help!

I think most scout groups will aim to be as inclusive as possible, but sometimes the reasonable adjustments they need to make will include asking a parent to stay to help their child.

That said, it's extremely unfair if a cub leader asked your child to leave because they couldn't/didn't want to attend camps. I've never heard of that before, and it certainly isn't typical of any group that I know of.

He has to build trust back up with them.

Please don’t use the “neuro spicy” slang/slur as it’s awful and offensive to a lot of us who are ND.
why haven’t you been a regular volunteer helper in the 3 years your child has been attending so you being there is normal? You do realise this is all run by other parents who are volunteering their time to do this without being paid and the normal thing is for parents to be expected to volunteer their time at Beavers/cubs etc and help out once a month or so? Why should other parents help out but you don’t?

Our beavers wanted parents to attend all the time to help out. It's the main reason we left because the whole point was to get him some independence not have mummy there, and also the other parents were frankly just a bit rude. It all felt a bit culty. And the animal names tipped me over the edge and I cannot understand why it's not safeguarding issue - who the hell is 'wallaby'?? Just call him John so when he's inappropriate my child can directly identify him.

@budgiegirl scouts leaders are volunteers- as a consequence they can pretty much do whatever they please. You either roll with it, or leave.
I’m slways surprised people are told to volunteer to help their child - this isn’t allowed?
Volunteering yourself means helping other children, not yours- at least for us you are not allowed to permanently volunteer in your child’s group. So if your child is in beavers, you volunteer in cubs etc.
Of course you do your 2-3 times a term volunteering in your child’s group, but the rota is set by the leader, so you have no control on when you are there.

They will not have done this to spite you @Pinkballoons55
and it would have been a group decision based on what is best for the other children and your child