Is it OK to keep a bedtime bottle at age four?

[DearDog96]

In a recent post about my MIL’s comment towards DD it was highlighted that I needed to get her out of nappies, off the dummy and going to bed without her bottle. The dummy I took away straight away and we’ve been doing well since, and nappies we’re going to try this weekend. With a baby on the way in a few months time I’m inclined to leave the bottle for now as it’s only once a day and it’s her comfort before bed, plus I feel like I’ve rocked the boat enough already! What’s everyone’s thoughts? Did any of your kids keep the night bottle at 4+?

Not all children with autism refuse to be toilet trained. I said this on another thread, my adult son toilet trained himself by the age of 2. He saw his dad standing at the loo and decided that it was time he did it. He didn't use a potty, but decided the loo was the appropriate place. He preferred to be clean and put 2+2 together and realised that using the loo kept him clean. I'm so fed up with the notion that kids with autism are all slow to be toilet trained. They are all different.

The milk sitting on her teeth all night is really bad and can cause cavities. The sucking on the bottle teat can cause an overbite issue and miss alignment. My dentist told me to stop the nighttime milk when mine about 18 months because it was affecting them. Sucking on the thumb is also terrible for teeth. Try some stop nail biting varnish. It tastes bitter. It tlstopped my kids immediately.

With the potty training it is really important to be fully trained before starting school. Everyone is different but ar 4 you really been to make your Dd more independent. Our school doesn't allow nappies and if your child soils themselves the parents have to come to change them. Talk her out and let her pick her own pants. I told my kids that the characters on their pants wouldn't like getting wee or poo on them. The first week I stayed at home with a potty in the living room and in the bathroom. Then I got a carry potty and took it everywhere with me. Even once they were fully potty trained I kept it in the boot of the car for long journeys. They got it very quickly.rewards for wees and 💩 might help. Mine likes chocolate buttons or a sticker chart.

My eldest has suspected ADHD and Autism. She potty trained at 2. They youngest we think had ADHD and dyslexia she trained at 3. All kid ND and NT are different. Not one is the same. Not even in the same familiy. Mine both present very differently and have different skills and challenges.

If DD is still in nappies, will she be wiping her own bum? Not sure how it works with bigger child wearing a nappy. Hopefully OP will teach her child how do clean herself if that’s another bit of parenting which she has missed.

I'm finding this whole thread utterly bizarre tbh. I can't fathom at all how two parents get to 4 without even attempting to potty train. OP sounds like she should contact her local health visiting team for some help and advice and an assessment of where her daughter is with her development.

Slow to hit milestones (including toilet training) can be an indication of ND. That does not mean all ND children are slow to hit all milestones. Nobody ever suggested that.

I understand that, what I get fed up with as does DS, is the constant comment made here that everything is blamed on undiagnosed, or for that matter diagnosed, autism. We are both more fed up with it, because although he suffers from a mental health condition everything was blamed on having autism. So yes, some kids with autism might find toilet training hard, so might other children for no reason at all.
The saying ' if you have met one autistic person, then you have met one autistic person' is true. It's not one size fits all, in this case little effort to train seems to be the case.

Stop doing that. Throw the bottle away and switch to a small cup of water if your child wants a drink at bedtime. Do you brush your child’s teeth after the milk or leave the teeth exposed to milk all night?

@DearDog96 I replied previously on your other thread. Get rid of the bottle. Throw it away. Small cup of water if she wants a drink. Stop giving her squash even if it’s sugar free. It will contain acids that are bad for her teeth. That’s when she can have milk to drink if she doesn’t want water. Don’t let her develop a thumb sucking habit. Intervene in that now. Pull the thumb out of her mouth. Paint the nail with nailbiting deterrent. Put socks over her hands once she’s asleep so she can’t easily suck on it in her sleep. The thumb will fuck up her teeth far more than a dummy. Unfortunately thumbs can’t be thrown in the bin so get it stopped now before it becomes a habit that will be harder to break. If you leave her to suck her thumb then start saving up for braces when she’s older. Good luck with the toilet training. Remember to take her at frequent regular times and don’t rely on her to tell you that she needs a wee.

I agree about people being too judgemental, OP. Doing it late isn't anything to be worried about too much, and some children just take longer.

My youngest daughter was in pull ups aged 4 at school and took ages to make the transition. She was literally the most stubborn child ever, and completely different to my eldest daughter and son, who both did the toilet transition much quicker.

Our school were brilliant and extremely supportive, and never once made me feel ashamed of it. Ignore the people who say "my own children were potty trained at 18 months and drinking out of a cup then too!" Every child is different.

I'm sure it will all be okay. Make thr change in a kind and assertive way and start with the bottle.

My son was later at toilet training, as he was 3.5 years old and at pre-school. I'd tried several times before that and he simply wasn't ready. I really beat myself up over it too, as he's tall for his age, and other people assumed he was older. We bypassed the potty completely, he was too big for it, so I bought a child's toilet seat, to go over the normal toilet instead. We stayed in over the half-term, and it clicked with him straight away, probably because he was older. He had one wee accident at pre-school after the half-term and that was it. He then worse night pants, and by 4 was dry at night. Nighttime very much depends on the hormone for waking to go, kicking in, and that varies a lot between children.

I agree with others, the toilet training has to be priority. You need to make sure your daughter is dry during the day, at the very least. Nighttime may take longer.

Milk at bedtime is fine but not in a bottle, try a cup instead and brush her teeth afterwards.

You've taken the dummy away, which is good.

You need to get your daughter into nursery/pre-school even if it's for a few months. Being with a family member, and not in a larger nursery/pre-school setting, may mean she struggles with the transition to school. At the moment, she's only used to you, your husband or a grandparent looking after her. Nursery/pre-school helps socialise children, allows them to get used to being in a more formal setting and also being away from parents regularly. This also needs to be a priority.

Regarding the 'she should have been in nursery' issue - I just wanted to say that when I was growing up (which is many many years ago now) there weren't the nurseries, kindergartens etc. My mum never even took me to a playgroup because there wasn't one nearby. So I started school absolutely cold, not knowing anyone and never having been away from my mum for more than an hour or so if a neighbour took me so mum could go shopping.

I remember starting school and it being a bit confusing, but we all coped. (and I actually am ND, although of course that wasn't recognised then) and I was horribly shy, but I wasn't traumatised.

So not going to nursery etc isn't necessarily awful. It is preferable, of course, but as long as your child is sociable she will cope with school.

Buy the crappiest nappies you can find. Some nappies are too good, they don’t feel any discomfort when they pee.

Also if there are any characters she loves, buy knickers with those on. You’d rather not pee on Spiderman or Elsa..

And I agree it’s a huge priority to put her in nursery, should have been done a very long time ago.

Mine all loved a bottle. Last one to stop was about 3.
I didn't read your previous thread. Is it night time nappies that are the issue? If so there is likely a link.
If you are just about to do toilet training generally though, it's probably worth doing one or the other next rather than both.

Agree my ds is autistic and still learned to toilet train by age 3, once he saw all of the kids in nursery doing it, that was the push he needed.
I would never assume a childs willingness to learn was down to neurodiversity, a lot of the time it's just lazy parents.
I'm ocd, did I enjoy potty training and cleaning up accidents hell no, but that's part of toilet training and having a kid. With another one on the way, they certainly need to deal with it now before they have 2 in nappies.

Has the dentist said there are any issues with her teeth? I can imagine they were happy - they usually check that they’re not still having bottles and dummies at age 1?

I don’t understand the need for a bedtime bottle, if she really needs milk before bed can you not just give her a small open cup of it downstairs with books before you brush her teeth to transition her?

I honestly don't know that its worth putting her into nursery at this stage.
It would be weird to be trying to settle in somewhere and them going on about you leaving almost right away.
Nursery will be doing all the leaving stuff, learning their song for graduation, preparing the kids for leaving.
Friendship groups will be established

Giving it a week or two to find a space and sort funding. School nurseries will close mid July and no doubt Op will want a holiday before school
May, June, July ?

Skip it go straight to Reception, all the kids will be settling in together.
New routines, new expectations, not all the kids will know each other.

I have to say it’s extremely worrying if it has not occured to you to brush her teeth after having milk at night. That is neglect.

So are some of the other steps you have not bothered with at the age of 4+. What is done is done, but perhaps worth considering getting someone to talk to about parenthood so that new mistakes can be avoided in the future?

No point in making Op feel worse.
Least it's only baby teeth.

Op how is toilet training going have you started this weekend?
I'd be very tempted to go straight to toilet with a toddler seat rather than potty then toilet, you are going to have to skip steps here to get her ready for school.

Having poor baby teeth often leads to having poor adult teeth.

They might be, but what I was saying is that if OP has not fully understood how important it is to brush teeth, what is to say she/her partner will understand how important it is after the baby teeth are gone.

I am not trying to make her feel worse, I think it is great that she has come for advice.

You tried to toilet train her in January? That’s your problem then. Were you not aware that you’re supposed to start toilet-training around 2yrs old? If you leave it too long, it can become harder as they get entrenched in their ways, know their own minds, and can be quite resistant.

I’d start with the nappies and be quite firm about it. She’s not 18 months old, she’s 4 and starting school in a few months. She’s old enough to understand. Let her choose some nice pants, get two potties minimum, a toilet seat insert depending on her size - and do not use those pull-ups that just make it harder. If you can get some towelling pants, they’re ideal as they can feel the wet against them. Use a Star Chart and promise a reward at the end if she achieves, eg a toy she wants or a special trip out.

The bottle, again, should have stopped ages ago. Once they can drink out of a sippy cup, you swap to that for evening milk, then a normal glass or beaker. I’d leave the bottle while you sort the nappies, but then stop it by changing it for a pretty cup and moving it earlier in the evening so she can brush her teeth after.

The expectations of school are higher than you must realise. We don’t expect to be dealing with babies, and children who haven’t been helped to the right levels of maturity by their parent(s) stand out. I feel very sorry for them as school can be a massive shock. It’s not their fault and they don’t understand why they’re suddenly being expected to do things.

Work hard getting your daughter ready. Praise her, give her extra responsibility eg fetching things for you, drying her own cup, etc etc, all the while telling her what a big girl she is and how you’re so proud of her.

No! It’s bad for teeth and nutrition. Sorry!

Lots of DC will be in childcare until the start of school in September. I don’t think it would be weird at all.

No, personally I didn't do that when my son was that age.

the "so what" was in relation to the OP worrying about putting her child in nursery - not school - because people would judge her. That child needs to be in some childcare setting to prepare her for school and that she may be still undergoing toilet training and OP will be judged for it is not a reason to keep her at home between now and school.