Would you be a sahp?

[UraniumFlowerpot]

I’ve noticed a theme of advice along the lines of never give up your career / income to care for kids because who knows what might happen down the line with the earning partner, you might find yourself single and penniless.

I’m currently considering my options when baby arrives later this year. Hadn’t ever planned to be a sahp but husband out-earns me many times over and I’m finding my career motivation mostly gone by now. Just naturally reached a plateau and got bored. Seems pointlessly stressful to work and put baby in full time childcare for a salary that will realistically make no difference to our standard of living. Current career couldn’t be picked up again after a break, I could return later to something else likely for less money. Current career could, at a stretch, support a family. Potential careers after a break almost certainly couldn’t.

I’ve talked with DH about the vulnerability of giving up work, he’s very happy to pay generously into pension and savings for me — not sure how much difference this legally makes since it would all be matrimonial assets anyway, but the understanding and willingness is there. He’s not pushing me to give up work but definitely values that role a lot. I also already have savings from before marriage that would see me through a transition period if we split, and a small pension (plus up to date with NI payments).

So my question to mumsnet is: What amount of personal or matrimonial assets, or what arrangement with the earning partner, would make you feel comfortable with the decision to become a sahp or substantially reduce earning potential to better accommodate kids?

Absolutely I would if I could have.

For those saying its as boring, its as boring as you let it be.

Working a job , I would be replaced in within days or getting to spend my days with my dc...

I was a stay at home parent for seven years and loved every day of it. I only went back to work because my husband had difficulties with HMRC and I needed to start earning again. It was very difficult to manage financially and we went without holidays, new cars, new clothes etc and eating out was only for special occasions; on top of that we moved when I was six months pregnant into a semi derelict house and did the majority of the renovation work ourselves. But we knew things would be tight and we’re happy to make sacrifices because we felt it would give our daughter the best possible start in life with me being with her full time. We waited to have a child until I was in my mid thirties because we wouldn’t have been able to manage on one income before then, and I always made it clear to my husband that I wouldn’t have children unless I could stay at home until at least the time they started school. I had my daughter in the 1990s and at thst time, the majority of children in her class had stay at home parents. It seems to be a relatively recent thing for people to look down on stay at home mums, whereas when I was a child/teen, my friends would have been really embarrassed to say that their mothers went out to work. I can still remember being teased when I was about 13 and my mum started doing voluntary work.

I agree.

I am always really surprised how little vision people can have about how to spend time if they aren't being told what to do.

Yeah exactly. @gozmaybe your kids are different from my son but there was a fuck tonne of stuff I wanted to do, which I couldn’t do after I had him - until he was about 6. Those things included, for example, going to cultural things like theatre or galleries or cinema (I know some people take their kids to the Tate Modern turbine hall to dick about but I also want to look at the art).

If you have a super active kid like my son is, he wouldn’t sit still long enough for me to get a wee break to do more “adult” things while he sat passively. It blows MY mind that parents of kids that do fit in more with their pre kids lifestyle cannot understand this.

I also find it hugely patronising when other women are like “It’s as boring as you let it be”. What does this even mean? Subjectively speaking, I found it boring and I can see many other women on this thread agree with me. That doesn’t mean I lack imagination or am some kind of dullard myself - far from it.

Many women find small kids dull. People who hang on their little kids’ ramblings like they’re saying something massively profound drives me insane. I feign interest (and do it well) but inside I’m like “WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY?!”

Yep.

My 2 year old’s new favourite phrase that she repeats all day is ‘i don’t like it’. I love her but fuck listening to that all day 7 days a week. I’m quite happy analysing 1000s of rows of data instead.

I’m coming at this from a slightly different perspective as I became a mum to a 2 year old via adoption. My plan was always to see how it went with the option to work full time, part time, very part time or not at all. All financially viable.

I think you know your DH better than we do and financially if you can manage without your wage it’s definitely worth consideration.

What I would say is do not underestimate the level of mundanity involved, and how quickly even a brilliant DH will let you pick up more than your share because you’re home.

I thoroughly enjoyed my adoption leave but I definitely struggled with the endless tidying, washing, being bored in the park, the routine. Admittedly some of this was hard because routine was rigid in order to provide safety for LO but still, it was hard. And my DH is great but after a few months I felt the way he began referring to me because he ‘didn’t know’ where things were/what the plans were etc.

I went back to work part time for my own sanity but I have friends who have stayed home until their kids were 5 and settled into school. They are infinitely more organised than me but we’re all busy but happy.

There is another active thread about young people struggling to find jobs and increasing unemployment in general due to increased business tax etc.

It is another reason my risk-averse brain tells me the best thing to do right now is work as we don’t know what is around the corner with job security.

Yes I did this but I agonised over it for ages. Ultimately these factors came into it, in no particular order:

1. Due to our level of savings I would still be able to buy a house mortgage-free in the event of death and divorce. I could also retrain as a teacher or something if I really needed to earn extra cash.
2. I was high up at work earning 6 figures pre-kids, so have proved my ability in the workplace, to myself at least!
3. An extra few years of more-of-the-same work would not have stretched me or interested me anywhere near as much as the total change that I experienced raising my own children full time.
4. My income, although high, made no real difference to family finances.
5. My contribution as a SAHM really does make life better for my family- my kids never have to go to childcare when sick, they eat at home every day so there’s no compromising on food quality, we never have to drag ourselves up early after a bad night’s sleep, DH never has to do night wake ups or housework etc. In essence, we don’t have “the juggle” which I imagine would be very stressful.
6. my first born has multiple severe allergies and I didn’t want her to risk her life at nursery. I obviously had no idea this would happen when i was pregnant but as soon as it became clear that she was ill it cemented my decision to be a SAHM.

That said, my 2 pre-school age children have never set foot in a nursery and I feel I work as hard as I did in my 60hr a week corporate job (admittedly without the stress of deadlines etc)- yet I am considered lazy and unemployed by much of society, it seems. So if status and stigma are driving forces for you then this isn’t the right future for you.

1 final thought: could you set up a business later down the line? although it’s not a good idea to rely on this for meaningful income, it can be a way to get back into the workforce and give you an identity outside of “mum”.

You might not get as much time as you'd like, but most babies and toddlers, if you work with their schedule, will sit for at least a time in a pram while you wheel round the gallery. I genuinely think most also find something to be interested in in that kind of environment as well. Obviously not if they need a spell at the playground, but after that's done, maybe a visit to the cafe for a sandwich and a cake pop, then time in the pram looking at the art. I don't think that's asking way too much of most dc.

You don’t have to go to baby groups or activities you don’t enjoy. It’s not a prerequisite of being a SAHP to be a martyr and fill your days with classes you don’t want to be in.

My OH is a stay at home Dad. We both were high earners but his job was more stressful than mine so all of our lives are better with me working vs him working. I asked him how he'd feel about not having a job and he shrugged and said 'fine'. I think if it were me I would feel slightly self conscious about not working, but I don't know why. I absolutely think there is nothing wrong for either parent to give up work for any reason but especially when there are kids involved. I guess it comes down to where we locate our identity and who we think we are... which is an interesting question more broadly.

In your situation, unless I loved my job I think I would give up work for a bit. Having two jobs with kids is hard and if your DH earns a lot of money I can assume that it might be reasonably pressured. You will probably find that it falls on you to drop everything and collect the kid from nursery when they are sick. You might find that you end up doing more than him at home and working full time and ultimately that leads to resentment.

Why would anyone expect a young child to sit passively while you did your “adult” things?

I have been everything. Full time working mum when I had ny first, this included huge amounts of uk and European travel.
Had my second two and a bit years after the first and dh was travelling internationally on the regular and was out earning me. Couldn’t make my job work and I had the lower earning potential so didnt return. Didn’t work for maybe a year after that. So that was my sahp period, maternity of a year plus a year.

I then got a zero hours wfh job that had a lot of flexibility. I worked 20-30 hours a week. I did that for four years. Then Covid happened and the company went under.

I then got a job in a school, 30ish hours term time. Did that for a few years.

Got a different job, full time again and did a post grad at the same time.

After a bit went to four days. Got a promotion. Started another post grad. Back at 5 days.

im now waiting to go back to 4 days.

What’s my point? You don’t have to make a choice and that be your choice forever. I’ve been flexible and made decisions that fit our family. Dh earns seven times what I do, I could stop working, my kids are now 10 and 12, although they dont need me as much in some ways, childcare in the holidays is a pain. So I’m going to drop a day when I can for some balance. And then maybe another one in a couple of years for more balance.

my kids weren’t harmed by the decisions I made. Ds1 was 12 months old when I went back and for 18 months I was away a lot. I cried when he wouldn’t want me to put him to bed or I’d missed something. I worried that we wouldn’t be close. Last night he held my hand in a shop, took the piss out of me on the way home, watched a movie with me, told me he loved me and made me laugh like a drain. So, I think we’re doing ok.

I don’t work for the money, I work for the nhs, but I do work for the stimulation and fulfilment and all the other intangibles work gives.

Quite.

You can arrange as many interesting activities as you like - but that doesn’t remove the daily early mornings, mealtime routines, nap schedules, behaviour management, crying, toileting, tiredness managing, bedtime routine cycle day-in, day-out.

Plus all the usual domestic stuff,

This is suffocating for many people.

I am always surprised by how boring other people find their kids. I think mine are fascinating, and I love thinking of new ways to play and explore and teach things and new ways of doing the old things I loved like visiting museums and art galleries, but in a way that works for dc. I’m also surprised they think it’s not using their brain, I’m constantly using mine. I say this as someone who used to have a very intense, well paid career and would have judged sahm before and found it a bit sad that someone would give up their career. Obviously op you need to factor in the chance that you will be bored as a sahm, so don’t make any decisions yet.

That part was admittedly left out, as in most cases - children do eventually go to school.

At that point, you cannot be parenting for 6 or so hours a day, as the children aren’t available to be parented.

Surely between those hours a SAHM is doing household activities (that everyone does, just at a different time) or is doing their own thing - which definitely isn’t parenting, and is just… being off work.

I wouldn’t unless I could be absolutely sure that I could quickly get back into a position where I could support myself and my kids if my marriage ended tomorrow, which just isn’t possible.

I have a great husband, I love him and he loves me, we’re incredibly happy, no issues at all, I hope we are together until the day we die but I’ve seen enough women in that boat end up unexpectedly and suddenly single and on their own with children in tow, or women who wish they could just leave but can’t because they have no money and no career prospects to support themselves solo, to be happy with the risk.

I don’t ever want to end up in a position where I feel I have no choice but to stay in my marriage if I became unhappy because I can’t support my life and the kids on my own and I don’t want to ever end up on my own with no idea how to support us on my own.

If some people find the normal parts of parenting that you’ve mentioned so awful, why do they bother to have children?

My (autistic) 9 year old’s favourite letter is B. This morning he spent best part of 10 minutes just yelling BEEEEEEEEEEE.

Yeah okay kid, off you go to school and tell them about the letter B, I bet they’d love to know.

Yep. People judge either way.
At the end of the day if you can afford it, (or not afford to have a job, due to childcare costs) give your time to the family. It’s work, just not paid for with money.

It’s just an odd comparison though, sure someone who’s children are all in school isn’t parenting during school hours but I imagine the number of sahp’s with all their children in school is probably strikingly small.

But you did ‘non parenting’ things when they weren’t at school too. Those things still have to be done, and you can do a better job of them, like cleaning your house better. Mine definitely isn’t as tidy and clean as I’d like when dc are little and it’s much nicer the older they get! Or there’s time to cook healthier meals rather than just quick meals, shopping is less stressful, you can go to appointments alone instead of with dc and you can get a bit more personal time back.
it’s only 6 free hours if you save all that stuff you used to do with them, for when they are home again.
Then you’re available to do more dedicated parenting once they’re home and the other parent benefits from a clean house and dinner made and whatever else you got done, And they can take some personal time too then.

Based on what I’ve seen on MN, it isn’t strikingly small at all.

As others have pointed out, many that do return only do so part time when their children go to school.

Mainly women, hardly ever men - strange that isn’t it.

Well - I think it’s part of the reason so many people aren’t having children.

Lots of people don’t find it fulfilling to just be doing domestic tasks, alone, all day every day, 24/7. You don’t know what that looks like much of the time, until you’re in it.

I don’t think ‘why have children then’ is really fair to throw at women who don’t want to totally 100% sacrifice their previous lives to serve their families - no one had such expectations of dads.