My friend lets her 10-year-old stay up past midnight on school nights

[Alyah]

So my friend and I were chatting the other day, and she mentioned her 10-year-old often stays up until around midnight watching TV or playing games, even on school nights. She said he still does fine at school and isn’t tired in the mornings, so she doesn’t see the problem.
I was honestly a bit shocked because my own child is in bed by 8:30 most nights, and I can’t imagine them functioning properly with so little sleep. Maybe I’m being too strict or a bit old-fashioned about routines, but it just feels too late for a kid that age.

If it's not you kid or your life it's not your problem.

All children are different but just to point out recommended amount of sleep for 7-12 year olds is 9 hours minimum. So unless her friends children sleep till 9am (not possible with school or work) they are sleeping less than the recommended amount every day of the school week.

It might work perfectly well for them (every child is different) but it doesn’t change fact. For the OP, i’d stay away from conversations about it and direct her friend to her school if she wants to discuss it again.

THIS.

Personally I think its a bit late but its not my child, not my life or my routine

Our 3 year old stays up later than most. Hes just not tired even after a day at pre school.

He wakes up fine, goes in fine and it works for him.
Every family is different and different things work.

I found i become SO much happier when I stopped caring what other people thought of my parenting. Our son is happy healthy and thriving and if their child is doing well great for them.

Some people are genetically predisposed to need less sleep. The whole maternal side of my family are night owls (DM for example easily went to bed at 3am with a 7am wake up time for work.. even I think that’s a bit extreme!) and DD has been no exception to that rule.

An 8:30pm bedtime would’ve been bonkers for DD at that age. I was never strict on bedtimes as DD was good at regulating herself. She took herself up to bed around 9pm and was usually asleep by 10:30 or 11 after reading her book or dozing off to a bit of TV. Never any issues getting up (7:30am) and ready for school - she was always a bright, high performing student so definitely no tiredness at her detriment academically.

This! Just stay in your own swim-lane OP.

I wouldn't have screens on that late because they really don't help sleep, but some kids dont need to get up before 8, if that's the case then he's sleeping as much as my 6 year old.

they have snacks?

I know it's worst than being a murderer on MN to give your child snacks, but they have a sandwich/ cold pizza/ biscuit/ fruit or whatever they are in the mood after school. Sometimes they are hungry for a big diner, sometimes not. If they're not home, they can't have a hot diner even if they wanted one, it's not a big deal. (they don't, my kids like their snacks. They would replace their diner with snacks if they had a chance 😂)

There's a balance, 8pm is far too early for most, and just not possible anyway, 11pm too late

But schedules are made based around kids and the parents, we never really sat down and planned the evening, we just go with the flow and work around whatever club they want to be in, like most parents.

The recommended sleep is based on the average child. Not all children fit into the "average" box. Its just a fact!

I remember when DS was a baby is was such a stickler for recommended nap times and lengths it drove me crazy. He just didnt need that amount of sleep. He was very happy and healthy.

Wheb he hit 17 months and wanted to drop naps completely I just decided to go with the flow.

He has been much happier since. As have I.

Lunch at 12, snack after school at 3.30, dinner at 7.30/8 is perfectly normal for loads of families up and down the country.

Every family is different but the OP isn’t wrong to point out (on Mumsnet) that her friends child is sleeping alot less than recommended by health professionals. In fact, chronically under-sleeping for their age. But i’d let my friend deal with the consequences of that if she wasn’t actually asling for help.

11pm is late for most adults to function at work (but we do it trying to cram everything into the evening because we have to). I’d rather my children have a rest most evenings than cramming activities into every single night. Im sure it causes no issues for children that have a couple of slightly later nights a week for an activity they love.

My DS turns 10 next month. Bedtime is similar to yours atm - lights out by 8.30 most weekdays, a bit later at the weekend if he's staying up for something particular.
But mine is still a very early riser (regardless of the time he goes to bed) so a sensible bedtime feels right.

I think it's incredibly late for most 10 year olds and could be having a more chronic effect on the child than friend realises - however I do know one extended familiy where from young ages kids needed much less sleep than average - seems to be gentic and was a frequent nightmare for the parents.

DS and DD1 to less extend and DH are all awful for sleeping - dropping off been suggested it's related to ADHD - but we were still trying and having routines from 7.30 onwards at that age - just sometimes took hours. I prefered audio books to screens - when they really couldn't sleep.

To be honest I’m in my 20s and used to stay up late as a kid. I wouldn’t say it did me harm in life, if anything I can tolerate functioning as an adult with less sleep and I can get work done late at night if needed. Some people are naturally night owls

In bed at 8:30 and awake by 6am in Spain?

That might be the case but it doesn’t take away from the fact that 12 hours a night is recommended for a toddler. With most parents working/getting other children to school/going to nursery etc, if your toddler is going to bed later than 8.30pm, its unlikely they were ever getting enough sleep every night.

But - every child is different so maybe they needed less. Same as a relative of mine living to 100 who smoked and drank lots - some will be ok with it but i’ll listen to the health professionals and try my best to follow what they recommend for a long life!

Its 11-14 hours a day, including naps AVERAGE (for a toddler). My toddler goes to bed at 2030, if she didn't she'd be up at 0500 with a 1.5 nap. There is no fact that says children NEED to sleep 12 hours over night

Are you actually going to add anything to the conversation?

My child DID NOT SLEEP.

That is kinda the point.

You could put him to bed at 7pm but he'd still be awake at 10pm. He would eventually go to sleep and then wake up four or five times a night.

You don't actually have to tell me he probably wasn't getting twelve hours sleep but it wasn't for lack of trying.

I'm sorry but some kids really aren't programmed to have what some dry bullshit out of touch with reality person says that a child should have. That's just a bit of nonsense on a bit of paper written by someone who doesn't have a child who doesn't follow the manual.

Believe me, I'd have quite like for DS to have got the memo. He was still doing it until he was 6.

Imagine that?

Kids need sleep. Some need more than others. Some are faulty and it's fuck all to do with parenting.

Who knew?

The post I replied to said her toddler was ‘never asleep by 8.30pm’ which is unusual for a toddler. Alot of toddlers are up between 6 and 7 most days to get ready for nursery/school runs/parents working, so most people I know always did an earlier bedtime than 8.30pm.

At toddler stage, ours were in bed at 7 and still had a long day nap (until 2 and a half). The only way they would have managed to last until that time after a busy day would be a late afternoon nap (which every parent dreads happening!).

As written on my post, every child needs a different amount. But there are recommended amounts of sleep to have for so many important reasons. As an adult, I can see the huge difference between having 6 hours and 8 hours and I think most people can. 6 hours wont kill me, I can still function, go to work etc but I certainly dont feel my best.

Her friend is not wrong to say thats very late to what is recommended if her child is waking at the normal time for most kids (somewhere between 6-7 ish if they are school age).

It wouldn’t be a conversation i’d bring up again with her, but she’s not wrong to state a fact that its very late for any child (or adult).

i think it’s late to be doing it regularly and during school days. I appreciate every human is different (myself and my husband are totally different in our sleep needs. My son is similar to me and needs his sleep so at age 11 is in bed by 9pm). I would however be interested to know if this child would stay up to midnight reading a book as opposed to watching tv/gaming. Those activities will be stimulating his brain so midnight might not be his natural preferred sleep time.

AND lots of unhelpful routines are borne out of people having to cope with the crappy cards dealt to them in life. No one - absolutely no one - needs to type of ‘friendship’ this OP is displaying.

If this was a conversation based on curiosity about root causes and variances in the human experience, that would be worth having. It only needs a touch of compassion and awareness to shift it in that direction. But it isn’t - it’s a thread based on a judgy premise from an OP who doesn’t seem to have a shred of awareness that not everybody is exactly the same as her.

I think that a regular 12am bedtime for a 10yo is not appropriate.

You won't know if the child has sufficient sleep if they are always waking to an alarm. You can't know if the screens and games are a factor unless you take them away for several weeks/months.

The only baseline you have is from the research papers and they a say 7 hours is not enough.

People are different. Just checked my sleep tracking, 6 hours is average for me and I don't really need more. Occasionally I snooze up to 7 hours on weekends. Have been like that since I was a kid. My DC are the same, go to sleep late but no issues getting up.

For me that would be far too late.
How my husband is from Turkey so his nieces and nephews are up until that time or later every night. I think sometimes it’s cultural.
Ours were always in bed at a reasonable time