7 year old tantrums are unbearable

[Parentinneed33]

I need some support - I am at my wits end.

My 7-year-old DD is funny, confident, friendly and well behaved. She has no problems at school and her daytime behaviour is excellent. However, bedtime has become increasingly problematic over the past few months and has escalated to a level that is now unmanageable and sometimes frightening.

Last night she had one of her worst episodes. When bedtime was mentioned she became extremely distressed and had a tantrum that lasted around two hours. During the episode she:

• Destroyed her bedroom (drew on her door, smashed a lamp, scattered toys),
• Threw items and physically hurt both her father and me.
• Screamed abuse and name-calling at us repeatedly.

At the end of the episode I burst out crying (couldn’t help it) as did she, before finally calming down. We were extremely shaken.

Over the years, we have tried every single routine/strategy we can think of: a consistent bedtime routine, no screens, calm and predictable approach, sitting with her until she falls asleep, setting clear boundaries and consequences. None of these have prevented the meltdowns. We have also tried asking her to go to her room and, in desperation, briefly closing the door in the past - which made things much worse. She can scream and rage for hours; we cannot safely lock her in a room and removing privileges seems to have very limited effect because she has very few things left to remove. She doesn’t really watch TV outwith weekends, she doesn’t have a phone/Ipad. Today I am cancelling a party she was due to go to tonight because of her behaviour, she will be upset by this but honestly I’m not sure it will leave a lasting impression?

We are utterly exhausted and finding it increasingly difficult to cope. I’ve been awake all night, completely wired from the stress of it all. We have a meeting arranged with a child therapist next week, which I’m grateful for. I realise that neurodiversity will likely be mentioned, and while I’m not dismissing that possibility, I find it hard to understand because these behaviours only ever appear at bedtime, the rest of the time she’s a happy, well-regulated child.

What I would really like to know is if anyone else’s child has been like this at 7 and has grown out of it? I’m so worried for her teenage years if she’s like this now!!

What does she say the issue is? Does she say she doesn’t want to go to bed? Is she saying she isn’t tired?

Honestly not much, sometimes that she is scared but mostly a generic ‘I don’t want it go to bed’ and then it spirals.

Gosh, that sounds like an extreme reaction. No wonder you’re exhausted.

Do you have bath time as part of the routine? A bath can be quite relaxing and a ‘warm up’ to bedtime, it might ease your daughter into the process. Could you also maybe go shopping for some new pyjamas or something that might make your daughter excited about bedtime?

It sounds like you’re all locked in a cycle. Have you tried just not putting her to bed for a few nights? I know it goes against everything we’re told but just let her stay up, let her fall asleep where she is and carrying her to bed?

It might just break the cycle and give you all a rest.

One of mine is a night owl and we spent years battling her to go to bed to “get her rest” and now she’s a teen she doesn’t go to bed until much later. I think she just wasn’t ready for bed and was mad at being forced to lie there.

My first thought was that she is scared. What could she be scared of? It sounds like her fight or flight system is activated. Hate to ask, but are there any males in the house that have access to her room at night?

Ok so she has mentioned being scared. I would explore this further. Ask during the day, perhaps when you’re not at home and everyone is calm.

I would be staying with her at bedtime for a while longer. Until she is asleep.

What time is bedtime?

We don’t have a bath before bed, she does a lot of clubs and showers after them so we’ve never really done that but I’m wondering if that might be an option. Thank you.

@skelter83 she is very intelligent and my worry is that would stick!! She could easily stay awake with her dad and I until midnight and I think the problem is she is exhausted so she does actually need the sleep..she just refuses!

@Mayflower282 she likely is scared but I’m not sure why, she has a nightlight, we keep the door open, we are with her when she falls asleep. I can say unequivocally there is absolutely no worries about males entering her room at night, there is only the three of us in the house.

@mellongoose we do stay with her until she falls asleep :(

@CarlaLemarchant bedtime is around 7.30 but it’s usually closer to 8.30 when she falls asleep (that’s without a meltdown - last night was 10pm)

It sounds like she isn’t nearly tired enough to appreciate sleep. And still has the energy to fight it.

My advice would be to get her started in something like a swimming club, or multiple sports activities that wear her out in the evenings, so that she actively wants her bed.

If you can’t manage that, then a very active play in the park.

She does clubs every single night :( Maybe pushing it back slightly would help.

Please don’t cancel the party. Through her behaviour she’s showing you she’s distressed, it doesn’t sound as though she’s choosing to behave in this way.

If she is ND taking things away or stopping her going to a party won’t hace the positive effect that you’re hoping for anyway and may just escalate her behaviour.

Can she articulate why she doesn’t want to go to bed? How does she do on this quick progress checker?

For now I would ask her if she would prefer to sleep in your room and offer her a mattress on your floor, you can still make it cosy and she can still have a lamp, a drink and some books to look at.

Then i would read up on PDA, this is probably worthwhile anyway if you’re seeing a HCP next week as they are likely to bring up PDA.

I would also try and bring in some ways to help her with regulation. Does she find that screen time helps her regulate after school or maybe a quite let activity when she gets home, a snack and a drink and then something like playdoh? To be fair though lots of ND girls will just want something to eat and drink them crash out in front of the TV for an hour.

What does she do for the rest of the evening? Does she do anything like athletics, cubs, or swimming?

Can you introduce Martial Arts as tgat can help her to regulate?

How about doing some yoga with her or starting the C25K?

And have you tried a weighted blanket?

I disagree with PP, you definitely should cancel the party. Destruction, name calling and violence are not okay and she cannot get away with it.

I'm guessing most of the replies will just be desperate to diagnose her with something as is usual on here.

Have you tried a no nonsense "super nanny" approach?

Is she overtired? We had similar behaviour at one point from our 5 year old. We made bedtime earlier by half an hour and it almost instantly stopped. If she is doing all these clubs etc is it too
much

That is quite early for a 7 year old. I would be looking at closer to 8:30pm and hoping she’d be asleep by 9pm especially if she’s been doing an activity - she’ll need time to settle before contemplating bed.

Sorry I posted before seeing your update.

Definitely try a bath before bed and aim for a later bedtime. Do you read to her before bed? If not, try a drink and a snack when she gets home, maybe a glass of milk and some peanut butter on toast. Then bath avd in bed with a story from you. My DD was resistant to sleep and liked being read to but first she liked putting in a bit of Lush’s Sleepy cream and having her weighted blanket on.

Does she have any sleep associations like a favourite teddy or a light and music show?

Some DC like the repetitive music and lights, some prefer a guided meditation and some like an audio story as they drift off.

What ultimately helped my DC2 though was a diagnosis and some Melatonin

I’ve not tried the super nanny approach is this on YouTube? I 100% agree with not cancelling the party and with a diagnosis, I really don’t think she has anything I really just contacted a therapist to get a little bit of advice on how to manage these episodes. As I said she is brilliant the rest of the time!

Yes sorry @SleafordSods after her behaviour the past two nights I think it would be outright stupid of us to let her go to the party. It would almost be like us rewarding her for acting like that. I’m not sure I know what C25k is? But she does swimming, gymnastics, drama, dance and tennis!! We’ve never really had TV after school. Many thanks, a weighted blanket is a good idea and I will take a look at your link.

Also agree that 7.30 is an early bedtime. How is she in the morning? Does she wake naturally or do you have to wake her?

When she is sending two hours highly distressed and destroying things, do you think she is in control of her behaviour? I doubt it. It sounds much more like a meltdown to me.

I would be more concerned about my child being in this state for 14 hours a week.

I don’t think that’s an early bed time for a 7 year old, it seems fine. You would aim for them to be asleep by 8.

I do think a club every night is excessive. Is she still wired from these at bedtime? What’s the time gap between getting home from clubs and going to bed?

Would she read before bed, either downstairs or in her room? Or be read to? Just to wind her mind down.

Ok, so your commitment to no tv after school, no tablets etc is admirable but kids do need wind down time. Does she get any time to sit and chill. What would this look like in your house?

The party thing I suppose wholly depends on whether she’s ND or NT? If she’s NT, which you seem to strongly think she is then punishment for bad behaviour can work. If she’s ND then generally it won’t.

Unfortunately nobody on here can tell you which she is.

I do think though it’s worth reading up on PDA, doing the simple progress checker I linked to and also reading up on ASD in girls and masking. Even if it’s just to confirm to yourself that she is NT and this behaviour is being caused by something else. A tantrum of 2 hours is very extreme for a child though, usually at this age you’d be looking at 10 to 15 minutes.

If she is NT, it does seem really odd that its just this that she chooses to misbehave over?

I really would try and break the cycle with putting her to sleep in your room for a while.

And C25K is Couch to 5 km but I see that she’s getting plenty of exercise already

What time does she wake up? That's quite an early bedtime for a 7 year old.

She has a lot of clubs, is she exhausted?

I second the idea of reading to her, or even getting a yoto player or similar to tell stories.

How does she react to not being put to bed, but told its time to go to her room without any pressure to sleep?

My youngest is often still awake at 9 but has been in bed since 730 as the expectation is that he's quiet in his room, but there's not pressure to sleep.

When my kids have acted like this, its usually tiredness (or hunger!). Could you try dropping a couple of clubs? When mine were similar aged they hated doing clubs after school and just wanted/needed to chill and watch tv. Maybe one club a week max was all they could tolerate.

Could you try a week with no clubs and see if improves?

I think there's pressure to make sure our kids are doing all these things, but actually rest and chilling at home is just as important, even if just watching tv... (that's all I wanted to do at a similar age)

We had to recently bring my sons bedtime earlier cos he was flying off handle at everything and it has helped. He's a bit older, but up to bed at 8.30 in pjs and teeth cleaned then he has until 9 doing whatever in his bedroom (without screens) then lights off at 9...could you try something like that, so can calm down a bit, still feels like she has some agency, but is much easier once in her room and ready to get to lights off stage? Also audio book on alexa really helps both my kids.

My 7 year old can be very explosive. Not really advice as such but things I’ve learned/observed at our house.

• if your DD is doing clubs every night, when does she free play and do what she pleases? She might be pushing against being always timetabled. My DD needs time to play and decompress otherwise she’s volatile!
• when do you spend time together - just connecting? My guess is that the need for connection is driving the desire not to go to bed. We do a weekly before school coffee date which is a special time for just the two of us. This helps to have something to look forward to when the week has been busy. We also read together in bed - both quietly reading our own books if we want, then I’m relaxed too!
• 7.30 would be too early for my DD. Between 8-9 is where our 7 year old falls asleep depending on tiredness levels. She will sleep 9-11 hours and be fine.

The other tough lesson I’m learning is I can’t lose it. Calm, firm and kind. If I get cross then all hell breaks lose. Still working on this….