7 year old tantrums are unbearable

[Parentinneed33]

I need some support - I am at my wits end.

My 7-year-old DD is funny, confident, friendly and well behaved. She has no problems at school and her daytime behaviour is excellent. However, bedtime has become increasingly problematic over the past few months and has escalated to a level that is now unmanageable and sometimes frightening.

Last night she had one of her worst episodes. When bedtime was mentioned she became extremely distressed and had a tantrum that lasted around two hours. During the episode she:

• Destroyed her bedroom (drew on her door, smashed a lamp, scattered toys),
• Threw items and physically hurt both her father and me.
• Screamed abuse and name-calling at us repeatedly.

At the end of the episode I burst out crying (couldn’t help it) as did she, before finally calming down. We were extremely shaken.

Over the years, we have tried every single routine/strategy we can think of: a consistent bedtime routine, no screens, calm and predictable approach, sitting with her until she falls asleep, setting clear boundaries and consequences. None of these have prevented the meltdowns. We have also tried asking her to go to her room and, in desperation, briefly closing the door in the past - which made things much worse. She can scream and rage for hours; we cannot safely lock her in a room and removing privileges seems to have very limited effect because she has very few things left to remove. She doesn’t really watch TV outwith weekends, she doesn’t have a phone/Ipad. Today I am cancelling a party she was due to go to tonight because of her behaviour, she will be upset by this but honestly I’m not sure it will leave a lasting impression?

We are utterly exhausted and finding it increasingly difficult to cope. I’ve been awake all night, completely wired from the stress of it all. We have a meeting arranged with a child therapist next week, which I’m grateful for. I realise that neurodiversity will likely be mentioned, and while I’m not dismissing that possibility, I find it hard to understand because these behaviours only ever appear at bedtime, the rest of the time she’s a happy, well-regulated child.

What I would really like to know is if anyone else’s child has been like this at 7 and has grown out of it? I’m so worried for her teenage years if she’s like this now!!

She sounds extremely dysregulated. My DC was like this and she is diagnosed autistic. We had other issues as well as just bedtimes though, but that was always the hardest part of the day. She is a teen now and still has anxiety about bedtime with lots of night-time rituals that have to be performed. Have you considered speaking to the school nursing team? Parents can contact them directly, it doesn't have to be via school and they can often advise on sleep issues.

The only thing that ever really calms my DC is when she is allowed to sleep in my bed, which I let her do sometimes if she is finding it especially hard to settle.

It sounds like she’s doing school, then a lot of clubs etc and isn’t really getting much time to properly settle at home? Especially with a 7:30 bedtime too. It’s hard though if she genuinely does enjoy the clubs. I’d suggest things like rewards charts etc but it seems like she’s a very good kid and that her panic/emotions just seem to take over and she looses control (sounds very similar to my son, however it’s usually getting him into school where he acts like this and there’s just no controlling it in the moment). Has she gave any particular reason to why bedtime upsets her so much? My son is ND and we always do a timer around half an hour before bed (20 mins then last 10 mins) so he knows it’s coming as he typically struggles with transitions. May help giving her a slightly later bedtime too.

Lack of screen time doesn't equate to huge meltdowns, ds (almost 7) doesn't have TV in the week, he reads, plays, draws. He always has reading time after his bedtime story.

@SleafordSods she wakes naturally!

@Anditstartedagain I would be inclined to agree but then I almost think it might be an attention thing - last night she was running about our bedroom and her dad came up to help me carry her back to her room, and she was smirking. Almost like she wanted that attention from the both of us in that moment?

@CarlaLemarchant @Hercisback1 sorry didn’t make that clear she does a club every night except Thursday. Last nights club ended about 6.30 and others end at 7pm… maybe it is too much? Being told to go to bed but not sleep is an odd one, we’ve gone through phases when she’s quite happy with this and will read then turn the light off but at the moment I don’t think that would be possible. Yes we read to her every night before bed.

@FlyingApple around 7am?

@dippy567 thats not a bad idea - I always thought the clubs would tire her out and she loves them so have continued… but maybe it’s doing the opposite

There is some great advice in here but if I read my book in bed with our DC, I’d be the one falling asleep! Perhaps that wouldn’t be a bed thing in this situation though?

That’s what I said in my post above. I suggested reading. I’m not telling them to introduce screens but there’s a chance the dc isn’t getting adequate mental wind down time before bedtime.

We used to really struggle at bedtimes with an otherwise well behaved, well regulated little girl (now nearly 6). Some of the points already mentioned:

• Baths might help or actually could wake her up more sometimes, or have the effect of winding her up re her refusal to get out.
• Our routine is bath then read x number of books, then stay with her as she has a bedtime song on repeat (a baby sensory version of twinkle little star), we stay for two then leave.
• We found reading a few books or chapters helped actually as if her behaviour was really challenging at bedtime we could say we’d do one less book now as not enough time etc, and that often encouraged her as she didn’t want to have less books. Now she’s at school she reads us the first book and we read a couple more to her. Recently we found she just wasn’t going to sleep for hours sometimes, so we’ve introduced her own reading time. We leave the room and she can read in her bed for a while. Sometimes we end up going back up and telling her it’s too late now, but often she reads for a bit then goes to sleep without issue. It’s made a positive difference.
• I know some people also use audiobooks/Yoto/Tonies at bedtime.
• Does she have a nightlight? A nightlight and it not being quiet seems key to our daughter’s sleep.
• Unfortunately I agree with PP and would also be cancelling the party, I think consistency is key with kids and if you’ve told them you would be cancelling you need to follow through or the next time you won’t be taken seriously. I think violence and destruction are fair reasons to calmly and rationally explain that we now can’t do X. We find that when we don’t get to do something due to behaviour, even ‘remember when you had to have showers for a few days because of your repeat refusal to get out the bath’, it really helps to focus the mind on the times we followed through and rightly or wrongly she’s more likely to comply with our request.

I hope things improve OP, it sounds brutal.

I think clubs every night is too much. If she's not getting back til pretty close to bedtime she's probably still very stimulated. Does she have dinner before the clubs? Mine hate doing more than two weekday nights out of the house as they just want to chill, play board games, watch TV, draw etc after school.

Ok so if she’s waking naturally then it sounds as though she’s getting enough sleep, even if you factor in the meltdown time, so I would try a later bedtime with a longer build up to it, so snack and drink, bath, in bed avd a chapter ot two of a book followed by light show/guided meditation or an audio book.

Other than for sympathy I don’t think this thread is going to help much. As can be seen people have very different ideas and not always based on experience!

For us accessing a sleep specialist was a game changer. Out of that we found for DS the best approach was to keep routine very simple but with very clear cues - extended routines built the anxiety whereas PJs, wash, story sleep was a lot less anxiety inducing. (We also need melatonin to help the process!)

I would also ensure adequate time for rest during the day. Being overtired makes things a lot worse for DS.

good luck. Please do seek all the professional help you can though as they will be able to work with you as a family to tackle to issue.

Read the explosive child.
it sounds too early for bed, she knows she won’t sleep then, she’s probably feeling scared or anxious while in bed, and she wants some control. Agree a different bed time and routine and ask her what she thinks will help a calm bedtime.

I agree with this (also lived through this from ages 3 to 7 so I understand what it's like).

I think it would be worth trying melatonin. We tried absolutely everything with our daughter but that was the only thing that made a difference. I don't think she makes enough of it naturally.

My daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and ASD at 7.

We had to sit in her room while she fell asleep till she was 12.

She did get there in the end although she still wakes early whatever time she goes to bed, so we can't be relaxed about it (but have never had to wake her up for school!)

Sorry also just read that she has clubs nearly every night. I do think she is probably exhausted and needs some downtime. Not child related but from my own life, if I’ve had to work during the evening I often need time to wind down before sleep, regardless of the time, so she probably doesn’t feel tired (though I bet she is) when she’s going to bed having not long been in because she’s been at a club. If you can I would drop a couple of clubs and see if that makes a difference.

Also a weighted blanket helps ds massively (make sure it’s the right weight and used safely)

Have you tried talking to her when she's calm the next day? Start with how she was feeling in the moment, what she was thinking if anything. The therapist is a good idea.

I was also wondering if the clubs every night are too much, or too tiring. Do you do many things together? Maybe spending some together 1:1 will help her open up, have a fun day out just the two of you if you can.

It sounds as though she's absolutely not in control of her behaviour and this is linked to fear, so punishing her for behaviour she can't control will likely make things worse.

I hope you're able to get to the bottom of it, best of luck.

She does clubs most night, apart from Thursdays and we are free at the weekend. We spend loads of time together out with the clubs (we do a weekly coffee date Thursday also!) That’s true maybe she does need more time to herself.

@Trainstrike she eats before the clubs. Maybe she is still wired after them? Will try pushing bedtime back I think.

@Sirzy thank you for that - I never thought of a sleep specialist actually I will look into that.

@Sparky888 thank you! Audiobook was downloaded at 3am this morning eurgh!

I also think bedtime is way too early. Imagine being a 7 year old yourself and busy all day and then straight to bed with no downtime with your parents. Id push it back to 9pm if she's falling asleep at 10pm. See how it goes for a week or two. Plus you'll all get quality time together and I think that is so important to a child.

I think too many clubs and she cannot wind down between coming home and bed. I would drop a club and have a restful evening. Also push bedtime back. Her behaviour is not acceptable but be consistent and see.

Stop the clubs, or at least reduce it to one or possibly two a week. I know some people’s thinking is that activity tires children out but I’ve found the opposite in that it can hype children up and they can’t settle. I agree with the PPs who suggest that maybe she needs time to unwind mentally in the evening.

I notice in one of your subsequent posts that you also suspect that some of it might be attention-seeking. I agree actually, and I suspect the behaviour is a mix of things not just one thing - overtiredness, hyped up, wanting attention from you and your DH as she’s feeling ‘left out’ by having to go to bed. Once the behaviour has started, she might feed off or react to the attention and (understandable) emotion from you and her father. Make your interaction with her as boring as possible. Then, if she’s manipulating the situation she won’t get the rewards she’s hoping to.

I don't hate to ask.
It was my first thought.
A child's behaviour is usually influenced by the adults who have been around from the very beginning.

I agree with others wondering if she's overtired - my DS is 7 and when he's exhausted his behaviour goes out the window. He also does clubs 5 days a week and loves them, but they take their toll. You expect children to become sluggish and sleepy when they are shattered, but in some cases (like mine and I suspect yours!) adrenaline kicks in and they get completely wired. We similarly have monster tantrums in the run up to bedtime.

Try skipping a few clubs for a week (don't tell her she's missing them, just say it was cancelled tonight) and see if it helps. Don't move bedtime any earlier, but give her a much longer wind down- we let DS watch TV after tea rather than handing over an iPad so that I can control what he's watching. Older or even 90s movies are far better than modern ones, which are faster and brighter and too stimulating if your aim is to calm her down! If she still fights bedtime, tell her she has to be in her room but can colour or read, don't force her to sit in the dark. Yoto players are a godsend here too.

I feel exhausted myself reading about her schedule and evening storms before bedtime.
She must be beyond exhausted herself. I do think she is very, very young to gave a class every day.
I would suggest reducing her after school activities and introducing more downtime so that her body and mind have time to relax before bedtime.
Then a nice regular routine after dinner before goi to sleep. So a couple of hours of doing the same calm routine before sleep.
She probably needs good rest after so many activities, 'nervous breakdowns' and lack of sleep

We had something similar (though not as extreme) with my dd it was something she was worried about the next day and by her logic not going to bed meant the thing wouldn’t come. Worst on a Sunday night before school in the morning. Could you explore whether it’s some thing like this?

I agree with this. I also think that she’s probably doing too many after school activities, and that 7.30 is quite early for bedtime at that age. Cancelling a party in response to your daughter trashing her room and behaving in the way you’ve described really doesn’t seem much of a sanction.

I also think her bedtime is fine - termtime we do in rooms by 7.15 and lights out at 7.30. Shifts a bit later in the holidays, and sometimes Saturdays.