7 year old tantrums are unbearable

[Parentinneed33]

I need some support - I am at my wits end.

My 7-year-old DD is funny, confident, friendly and well behaved. She has no problems at school and her daytime behaviour is excellent. However, bedtime has become increasingly problematic over the past few months and has escalated to a level that is now unmanageable and sometimes frightening.

Last night she had one of her worst episodes. When bedtime was mentioned she became extremely distressed and had a tantrum that lasted around two hours. During the episode she:

• Destroyed her bedroom (drew on her door, smashed a lamp, scattered toys),
• Threw items and physically hurt both her father and me.
• Screamed abuse and name-calling at us repeatedly.

At the end of the episode I burst out crying (couldn’t help it) as did she, before finally calming down. We were extremely shaken.

Over the years, we have tried every single routine/strategy we can think of: a consistent bedtime routine, no screens, calm and predictable approach, sitting with her until she falls asleep, setting clear boundaries and consequences. None of these have prevented the meltdowns. We have also tried asking her to go to her room and, in desperation, briefly closing the door in the past - which made things much worse. She can scream and rage for hours; we cannot safely lock her in a room and removing privileges seems to have very limited effect because she has very few things left to remove. She doesn’t really watch TV outwith weekends, she doesn’t have a phone/Ipad. Today I am cancelling a party she was due to go to tonight because of her behaviour, she will be upset by this but honestly I’m not sure it will leave a lasting impression?

We are utterly exhausted and finding it increasingly difficult to cope. I’ve been awake all night, completely wired from the stress of it all. We have a meeting arranged with a child therapist next week, which I’m grateful for. I realise that neurodiversity will likely be mentioned, and while I’m not dismissing that possibility, I find it hard to understand because these behaviours only ever appear at bedtime, the rest of the time she’s a happy, well-regulated child.

What I would really like to know is if anyone else’s child has been like this at 7 and has grown out of it? I’m so worried for her teenage years if she’s like this now!!

I was this child OP. at exactly the same age. I still remember my mum getting so frustrated she held the door shut - it was a horrible, horrible thing for a terrified child who desperately needed her mum. I was probably undiagnosed ND (DS is ND).

Please don't punish her further by stopping her from going to the party. Do you really think that is going to help anything? That it's going to 'teach her a lesson'. I promise that it won't. The consequences are that she no longer has a lamp and some of her toys are broken/need to be tidied up by her.

People on here are obsessed with punishing and somehow believe it's the answer to everything. It really isn't.

What you need to do is change bedtime. Personally I'd offer her staying up an hour later and see if that would make her feel better about going to sleep. I'm not convinced it will. I'd combine it will putting her mattress on your floor and letting her sleep in your room for now.

She'll grow out of it, but right now she feels unsafe and the only thing that is going to change that is to make her feel safe. Punishing her is only going to do the opposite.

I’m in a similar position to you and my “D”M was very focused on punishment too and not so focused on trying to understand why I was behaving how I was. Unfortunately the punishments only served to fracture our relationship further and frustrate her, as the punishments didn’t work making her more angry. It was a bit of a vicious cycle.

Way too much communication.
Take yourself out of the situation so she cannot hit and abuse you. Why are you hovering about in her room when she is acting like a wild animal?
Good night, see you tomorrow and let her get on with it.
Oh, and no party. You need to keep the other children safe from her ridiculous hitting, nasty language and general shit behaviour.
She will learn.

@Needlenardlenoo
I’m not judging anyone, but I do have opinions based on my own experience of bringing up children, and from what I’ve seen.

B6 is lucky in some ways, yes. Nice parents, nice house, holidays etc, but his behaviour has spilled outside of the home into every other area of his life, to the extent that his parents have been obliged to withdraw him from school.

Parents’ attention at bedtime shouldn’t extend to them not being able to leave his side until he falls asleep, imo. He’s 6.

I hope the OP finds a solution, but so far, her and DH giving so much time and attention to bedtime doesn’t seem to be working.

My thoughts

1. Speak to her in the morning, when everyone is calm, about why she doesn't want to go to bed. I would do it ASAP, while the memory is still fresh, and start with that behaviour can never happen again. You want to understand why she was so upset that she destroyed her things. (I would not replace or fix what she has broken.) What does she think she needs to go to bed on time? If that is something you (parent) think is reasonable, try it out.
2. I'd cancel the party
3. She would be told that if she behaves like that again, one after school activity will cease. That will be repeated for each incident. It's up to you if she can earn them back through good behaviour.

I know it can be unpopular on here but Supernanny’s bedtime techniques are very effective. There are lots on YouTube and watching them manages expectations when dealing with the issue. It sounds really tough OP but I think previous posters hit the nail on the head. Behavior is communication. I think she wants more of your time.

Girls don’t tend to show “symptoms” of ND until around age 8, so it could well be that she’s masking all day and melting down when she’s finally home. If she’s generally a well behaved child, I’d be concerned about the level of distress around bedtime. She’s not being naughty, something is wrong.

If you rule out ND, look at cutting down the clubs. School, club, home around 7pm and then expected to be in bed by 7.30pm is too much. Where’s her downtime? Maybe she just needs some time relaxing at home with you to wind down a little bit.

I have ND night owls.
They've always had bedtimes, but at times that reflect their sleep needs.

Time to wind down before bed is important. Time in the bedroom with a soft light doing something like reading, drawing, listening to music or gentle play e.g. with cuddly toys can be helpful.
Lumie clocks have sunset versions that gradually dim the light.

I grew up with a DM who was rigid about early bedtimes that bore no ressemblence to my sleep needs; I was expected to have lights out and do nothing. If I was caught reading by street lamps or cracks of light at the door, I'd be told off and that I was ruining my eyes, and I'd often be awake for an hour or two after bedtime which was utterly pointless (and I'd be first to rise at 6-7am). This is why I haven't fought bedtimes with under-tired children.

My 12yo still likes to sneak in with me occasionally, and likes the reassurance of company. He had issues such as night terrors, nightmares and sleep walking when he was younger. Sometimes his body systems go a bit out of sync as he falls asleep/ wakes which can be alarming to him.

Can you tell us more about the evening and your DD, specifically:

1. screen time that evening?
2. school day/wrapcare/clubs?
3. food? sugar levels etc?
4. is there a sibling in the mix? where were they during this altercation?
5. how many hours sleep does DD usually get/need?
6. is DD neurotypical?

I agree with everyone who’s saying she needs more down time after clubs (and maybe fewer clubs), in other words, time to relax and chat to parents without anything else on the agenda. Also agree that OP should bring up the chat with DD in the supermarket, or the car, anytime other than bedtime.

Don’t cancel the party. She isn’t doing this to be naughty. It will just push her into a higher level of angst.

Sorry just read through all your answers. I’d put more of bedtime routine in place, long bath, reading, also have you thought of https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/novomins-kids-l-theanine-30-blueberry-flavoured-gummies-6100007027
They help with sleep quality, I take adult version before bed.

Hey OP
I feel for you I really do... my DS is 7 and we have gone through this with him until fairly recently.

To the point that no matter how tired he was he would kick off at bedtime. However, the last 6 weeks we have seen a BIG improvement with him. always had a set bedtime and a night time routine of bath or shower, pjs, some chill time with milk or hot choc and a biscuit as we have with our older 2 but with youngest DS he just seemed to push back on it hugely and it was draining.

I started to change my approach to bedtime with him and so far it seems to be working. I have realised that whilst he likes to have his half an hour chill time watching a cartoon with his milk and a biscuit after this he still isn't quite chill enough to sleep. So I have just brought the routine forward by 15 minutes. Shower or bath at 7pm, followed by his 30(ish) minutes to watch his programmes and chat to us etc then at 7.45 I take him up to his room and he he has maybe 15-20 minutes quiet time either drawing or playing with his lego his bedroom is shut and no1 goes into him until I go up at 8-8.15 to him and tuck him in. This seems to be working and don't get me wrong it works better some nights than others.
No ND or SEN either with him (although he is 100% feral and a total wildchild) but simply just one of them who needs that time to relax before sleep. I'm much the same and still I will watch TV before bed and then read for 10 minutes before I drop off to sleep. My DH on the other had only has to look at a pillow and he's snoring & our older DS & DD are much the same as him.....

So I was like this at the same age. My bedtime meltdowns would be an hour and I would kick/scream/throw things/destroy my room. I loved my room and all my things so it wasn’t something I felt in control of and I did feel remorseful afterwards (and 20 years later still feel sad about some of the broken things) but I wasn’t able to stop myself. I think therapy would’ve been super useful. Punishment did nothing as I really felt I couldn’t help it. It’s like I had all this energy and rage that needed to come out some how. I eventually learnt that this wasn’t the right way to express it (so just ended up suppressing it or throwing soft toys only when no one was around - nothing got damaged that way..). As I say, therapy would’ve been super useful then. I still don’t really know why but it was definitely because I was super tired - not necessarily always physically but often mentally from being “on” and “behaving correctly” all time. I was also really unhappy. That doesn’t seem to apply in your case though! Finally, there was a large element of control for me - I felt strongly that I had no control at all in my life, so that made me feel overwhelmingly frustrated, and this is how it came out. it
lasted about 2 years 😬

Hi all,

Thank you so much for the replies! Will bulk reply as unable to separately reply to them all. Someone asked about our evening - she doesn’t really get screen time in the evening, not because it is banned more so we just don’t really watch that much TV midweek. I also think for DD it would do the opposite to calming her down I think it might make her more wired. School 8-4 then usually a club starting around 5.30-7pm (except Thursday) now I am looking at that on paper it is a lot. I also agree with a lot of posts about trying to get her to bed straight after these clubs, it’s clearly too early. I think a longer, calmer bedtime routine needs to be put in place rather than trying to put her straight to bed. Shes good with food, actually a really good eater and will eat what her dad and I have no issues there. No siblings. As far as I’m aware not ND and we’ve never questioned that until recently as her behaviour is so good out with bedtime!

I have just bought a weighted blanket and will be working my way through the resources people have linked (thank you!)

It is so hard isn’t it - I see it from both sides in that she sees red and I really don’t think she can control it when she starts, it just escalates. At the same time she is a very intelligent little girl and being an only child I often think it’s simply FOMO she has when going to bed!

I am very very conflicted about the party this evening!! Some people saying cancel some people saying don’t. I am worried that there will be no consequences to her acting like this if we don’t cancel. She woke up this morning and said ‘if I’m good tonight can I earn the party back’. I told her on Tuesday she wasn’t going but she could earn it back and then last night she acted even worse so I feel I can’t say oh yes let’s go… considering she hasn’t earnt it back whatsoever!!

just bought this!

oh also in reply to the mattress on the floor - I wonder if that’s needed if we are sitting next to her when she falls asleep. I agree that bedtime would be a lot easier if she were in our bed or we had a mattress beside her but I worry how long we would be doing that for! It is also only bedtime that is the issue, she occasionally wakes up at night to tell us she needs the toilet but as soon as she comes back she goes straight back to bed!

The extreme reaction sounds to me like she’s been triggered by some sort of trauma that’s happened in the night.

This could be anything. It doesn’t have to have been a “big” trauma, it could have been something as little as a nightmare. It could have happened way way before she started these “tantrums” and just resurrected at that time. It could be something she doesn’t remember, which could explain her vague response. Trauma is simply something that happens that at the time is too big for our nervous systems to cope with. Often we don’t remember and it takes work to pull it out of where it’s frozen in our brains and process it properly.

When triggered, fight, flight or freeze is activated. Sounds like she’s going into fight mode, which imo is the hardest to regulate as it’s so destructive. It’s challenging as it’s dangerous, but ultimately it’s not her fault if there’s some sort of unconscious trauma.

I’d put this possibility to the therapist and let her do her thing. In the meantime, all you can do is be a calm presence (I know how hard that is for you and will take more strength than you possibly have), and wait for her to calm down enough to regulate.

I don’t think this is something you can handle on your own and it sounds like you’ve done all the right things to try. Hopefully the therapist can help.

Best of luck.

But why are you punishing her? She can’t help it,

Tough situation op

Two things:

1. She needs some down time. That means at home, not doing anything in particular. To say your kid sounds overrescheduled is an understatement. She literally has no time to just chill.

1. She cannot act like that, breaking stuff. It'd be a no for the party from me.

Do you usually impose consequences for bad behaviour?

Cos from the smirking, it sound alike you don't. She's clearly in charge. And knows it.

Have you tried just letting her play/read quietly in her room? If she's going to be awake anyway she might aswell quietly entertain herself

I couldn't sleep as a child ( diagnosed ADHD/ASD as an adult) and in the end my mum got me a little lamp and I was allowed to read to my hearts content. I didn't have meltdowns but my mum said she would frequently come up to go to bed herself and I'd still be lay in bed awake so I assume she must of felt bad for me 😅

As an adult I stull struggle to sleep

I wouldn't stop her going to the party, if she Is ND she won't be able to put the punishment with the crime in her brain. It won't make sense to her

I haven’t read all the replies but it sounds like she’s struggling to transition from clubs (awake/energy) to ‘straight to bed’? I certainly couldn’t come straight home from work then straight to bed (not saying other people couldn’t!). School and clubs most nights is a lot, and it’s the over tiredness that can make them hyper and then meltdown. We do a lot less than I thought we would with our kids as they are so tired from school but I also appreciate it’s a privilege they can come home straight from school not everyone can as their working hours dictate after school clubs etc. Could she cut down to two clubs a week? Has she commented she finds the clubs too much? It’s just where my instinct is going from what you’ve written but I may be way off the mark.
your coffee dates together sound lovely as well

edited to add: I know it’s not straight to bed but it may feel like it to her if she can’t unwind

I imagine you’re inadvertently pressuring her by having her at clubs almost every night, getting her home and then insisting it’s bedtime pretty much straight away and then sitting with her until she falls asleep. Imagine if someone did that to you when you came in from work- you’d probably be raging too. And 7.30pm is a bedtime for a 4YO not a 7YO. I’d drop her least favourite club immediately. Then I would give her room an age appropriate refresh to make sure she has a reading light, a selection of books, a desk with colouring/activity books, some quiet toys like lego or bracelet making sets, maybe an alexa or yoto that can do audiobooks. Ask her what she wants to have a calming more grown up room! Then I’d enforce going up to her room at 8pm but remove any pressure to sleep.

I think there should be a punishment for the behaviour but I wouldn’t make it missing the party as having downtime with her friends sounds like exactly what she needs. I’d honestly let her earn it back with good behaviour and come up with something else like no TV this weekend so that there are consequences but she doesn’t have to miss out.

@Bitzee @jputthekettleon thank you for these replies, they really makes sense! Yes I absolutely agree it’s far too much pressure. My DH and I were just chatting about making 8pm a ‘room’ time but not necessarily a ‘bed’ time… that might give us a little of our evening back without forcing her to sleep and she could have some down time. We could definitely cut a club out, I have one in mind.

Ahh interesting, my take was that she is already doing many clubs in the evening and is overstimulated and not wound down ready for sleep. I would cut back on what she did in the evening. In our house we call the apparent burst of activity at bed time ‘bad energy’. It appears they are not tired but they actually are and if you don’t time things right it can tip over into the kind of situation op describes.

I agree, it doesn’t sound like behaviour she can control and I wouldn’t be punishing her for it.

It’s unlikely to help anyway.