Page 13 | French shopkeeper thinks English parenting is terrible

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Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 31/08/2025 00:37

i have been very embrasses to be British in France. The level of parenting there is what I like.

Thattimeofthenight · 31/08/2025 00:50

MulberryMoon · 31/08/2025 00:16

Do you break them like OP's kids?

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Accidents happen. I’ve dropped something and broken it in a shop before and paid for it. Life is about mistakes and learning. I doubt anyone expected the toys to have toothpicks inside them 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wonder how many posters on here championing the French way of raising kids have ever actually lived in France. I have. The kids are little shits at the same rate as British kids, the teenagers are some of the worst I’ve ever encountered… and the adults? Well…

SemperIdem · 31/08/2025 00:52

Thattimeofthenight · 31/08/2025 00:12

Weird. I touch things in shops constantly. That’s kind of the point of browsing.

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Browsing is looking…with your eyes.

You surely cannot have reached adulthood and still have the childlike compulsion to pick up or touch everything you see?

Thattimeofthenight · 31/08/2025 00:55

SemperIdem · 31/08/2025 00:52

Browsing is looking…with your eyes.

You surely cannot have reached adulthood and still have the childlike compulsion to pick up or touch everything you see?

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Everything I see? Grasping around in a blind panic to simply touch everything in sight as fast as I possibly can? No, no… that would be absolutely mental.

But this is Mumsnet after all, where people love to reach for any old bullshit that doesn’t reflect reality.

Everyone picks things up in shops. We all know this.

SemperIdem · 31/08/2025 01:02

“I touch things in shops constantly” is what you said @Thattimeofthenight

Thattimeofthenight · 31/08/2025 01:11

SemperIdem · 31/08/2025 01:02

“I touch things in shops constantly” is what you said @Thattimeofthenight

Edited

It is. Did you take that to mean I literally have to compulsively touch everything single item on every single shelf of every single shop I ever enter?

God love you.

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:26

Turquoiseforever · 30/08/2025 20:43

Long one sorry, but I've included details to try and give an accurate picture!

Holidaying in France currently and have had a memorable incident in a shop today that has given me some food for thought, just interested in other people's thoughts on this.

Gave my oldest kids (3 & 6) €5 each to buy a souvenir of their choice at our local seaside town. Most shops turned out to be quite bougie and aimed at adults, but saw one which looked hopeful. Had an A-frame sign outside with a plastic colourful beach windmill on it, and a rack of children's clothes. Went in and quickly realised it was again full of very valuable things. At one end was a basket of handmade crocheted teddies, handmaid kids clothing, and some wooden toys. The kids took a look at the teddies, picked one up each then sat in two kids chairs holding them on their laps for a few minutes while I had a quick look round the shelves around them. We had a look at a few other things together, for full disclosure: when we entered my 3yo picked up a very delicate cup which I quickly set down and reminded her not to do. As we were leaving my 6yo very gently pointed out a necklace to me on a very flimsy stand that started to tip over, which I caught before it fell and set upright again. They looked at a few other things without incident or touching.

We didn't spend long, said merci and went on our way. About 10 mins later a lady from the shop approached us in the street and informed me my kids had broken two toys in her shop. We went back with her and found out that the rabbit teddies they had been holding had some very thin toothpick-like sticks of wood in each ear (to shape them a bit) which had been broken by my daughters twisting the ears, pretending to give them a 'hair style'. I had no idea at all they had been broken. Obviously this is my responsibility and error of judgement, and was totally correct to be brought to my attention.

However, the lady also subjected me to a rant about how French children would NEVER pick things up in a shop, they are taught "limits", whereas all summer she has had English, German etc children visiting and breaking things and being given "no limits" by their parents. Complained we had left the place a mess and her husband had to tidy behind us, because the teddies were placed back in the basket but not sat upright as previously displayed (I had set the chairs back carefully but admittedly been distracted from checking the basket).

I pushed back (calmly!) on her generalised critique of my parenting, and she said she has just lost patience after a summer full of similar experiences and essentially admitted this lecture wasn't personal. Still, it was pretty heavy handed to give in public in front of my children and other customers.

To be clear I know I made an error. We had been in a few quite breakable shops already which required heavy parenting, and I guess I saw an opportunity for a quick relief for us all. Normally I would supervise my children looking at anything handmade, so it was a lax moment, but I did think they were just wool and stuffing and wouldn't suffer at all from light playing. Also, typically I wouldn't take my children into these kind of shops. They have never broken anything in a shop before!

I just wonder how humbled I should be. Did I just catch this lady on a really bad day? Was she a bit racist? Are french children really that obedient all the time? Should I strike it off as a bad day and move on without too much thought, or do I take the criticism on board more strongly and accept I should be stricter with things like this and re-evaluate my parenting?! Do we really have much lower standards in the UK?

It's a shame, we've had a lovely holiday but now I feel like we're not that welcome here and have been judged/looked down on in general. Do we really have a terrible reputation in France?

The French are not wrong though. I say this as an English woman.

The kids I see scootering in shops, kicking seats on planes, screaming in supermarket’s, talking in the cinema, hassling people in cafes, standing on chairs are rarely Indian, Chinese, African, polish etc.

you let your young kids touch /handle items they shouldn’t of. You have clearly let them do this many times before. Why even take them in a shop like that?

how did you get to France? Was you allowing them to be feral on the plane /ferry also? 🙄

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:31

GoAwayAutumn · 30/08/2025 20:49

Sorry, but I think she was absolutely right to be annoyed. There's no way you should have let your children sit and play with something you had no intention of buying. At 3 and 5 they should be holding your hands at all time in shops like this, not left whilst you have a look round. I hope you paid for the teddies.

I know. I see it a lot of it in uk shops and it’s always English kids. I say this as a English woman.

Chinese/Indians/polish parents don’t do this gentle /lazy parenting lark.

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:33

AngryLikeHades · 30/08/2025 20:58

She over-reacted.

Are you of these mums who lets there kids “explore” everything and not parent them? 🙄

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:34

YourFairCyanReader · 30/08/2025 20:57

Kids shouldn't pick up anything in a shop that they're not going to buy. Agree with shop keeper this wasn't acceptable!
I'm British and wouldn't have let me kids do this, so I don't think it's a fair reflection on British parenting.

Your rare. Most are not like you

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:41

Namechangerage · 30/08/2025 21:53

This. I thought when you said they were holding the toys that they were the items you were buying. You don’t let your kids play with a stuffed animal that you’re not buying and then just put it back, wtf 🤣

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I agree. The mum had form for this in that she lets
Her kids act like this back home. I hate lazy parenting /let’s explore everything lark.

I had quite a few toddler bump into me in town yesterday as there mums just let them walk were they wanted. they couldn’t be bothered to hold there hands/use reigns. It’s like the toddler was taking there mum for a walk but a very zig zagging drunken walk. What’s all that about? Of course I have a the evil one for not predicting which direction there feral toddlers would walk next…

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:46

BertieBotts · 30/08/2025 22:39

I don't let my DC touch things in a shop like that. They aren't allowed to touch things in most kinds of shops. Maybe a toy shop, especially if there are demo items out for them to try out. However I probably just wouldn't take them into that kind of shop at all, if we did go in there thinking it was more of a cheap and cheerful shop and then I realised it was in fact still delicate/expensive and breakable I would be mentally going "Fuck, reverse reverse, everyone turn around right now". Mainly because despite not ever being allowed to randomly handle and touch things, they don't seem to have internalised the message and I find I have to remind them constantly, especially the 7yo but he does have ADHD.

I would stop them from snatching. I don't however bother to correct my just-turned 4yo when he insists he is nearly 5, or actually 6 or actually 10. It doesn't matter. It's not like he actually thinks that, he is just playing. If someone asked him his age in a serious context I expect he would give the right answer.

I do think that sometimes people have different behavioural expectations and not meeting those expectations is not necessarily bad parenting/bad manners, it's more of a culture clash maybe. In some shops, sitting on chairs which are provided and holding a toy and playing with it a bit in a gentle/careful way would be perfectly fine/normal, and it also wouldn't occur to me that a soft toy would have breakable parts in it, although I probably wouldn't let my child sit and twist parts of a toy. In fact it's interesting she said German kids did the same, because we live in Germany and most toy shops in Germany have toys set out at child level for them to touch and play with and try out, because if parents see their children enjoying toys, they are more likely to buy them. However, nothing breakable, like a pop-up book, or that would be ruined if a part got lost is left out, it's more big things like ride on toys, or something fairly robust like a wooden doll's house with skittle-shaped dolls and chunky furniture, or some Brio type trains or that Grimm's rainbow or similar. While the expectation exists to generally tidy up after yourself, there would also not usually be a pristine display which was expected to be left exactly as found, in fact a lot of things are open ended and creativity is encouraged. Children are not expected to wait for permission from adults about everything at all times and indeed are generally afforded a lot of independence compared to the UK. (I can't go on "what age would you let...." threads any more because German parenting norms have broken my UK perspective of what is OK!)

It's possible that in France children are genuinely brought up with more of an expectation that they must ask before touching things, even in an environment designed for children like a toy shop. If the shop is in a touristy area, then it seems strange to me that the shop owners wouldn't adapt to this, especially if they are losing stock due to it, but I suppose perhaps the majority of their customers are still French so they could see those behavioural expectations being met by most of the French children and hardly any of the English/German children and make an assumption from that pattern, but I don't think it means that English/German norms are wrong, they are just different and the environment is not set up with them in mind.

gentle parenting is dreadful. It means no boundaries, raising brats, expecting others to pander to you and annoying other people,

I avoid going to cinema /cafe /pub because of it.

Devonshiregal · 31/08/2025 01:48

MumoftwoNC · 30/08/2025 20:56

OK sure, most people use the word racist either to mean prejudiced against people of a certain ethnicity or a certain nationality. Maybe it's not pedantically correct but that's how average people use the word.

I'm mixed race but British nationality. I don't think the woman in the story cared about the ethnicity of her customers but she did seem prejudiced against where they're from. It's not OK. And for want of a commonly used word for that, I'm calling that racist

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Is that not also ethnicity? Ethnicity refers to shared cultural experiences, including a common language, ancestry, traditions, and national origins, which distinguishes a group from others. It is a broader term than race and is determined by a sense of shared group identity rather than biology or fixed physical characteristics.

And don’t know why people are so desperate to dismiss this shopkeepers’ rudeness as not racism—- from citizens advice: Race discrimination is when you are treated unfairly because of your race, or because of the race of someone you are connected with, such as your partner. 'Race' includes colour, nationality, citizenship and ethnic or national origins.

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:49

Nestingbirds · 30/08/2025 22:44

We have just finished our supper at a Michelin starred restaurant with many French children present - all on iPads and sternly told off for even speaking. The English families here and other nationalities do not have gadgets, and are engaging in conversion.. French children are overly disciplined, and not in a good way. It’s all very 1970s tbh.

The lady needs to rearrange her shop to make it more user friendly.

She doesn’t need to change for lazy English mums who don’t parent there kids. When in Rome… Before anyone jumps on me I’m English. I also work in a school. The most behaved and pragmatic kids are rarely English ! There mums have better boundary’s etc.

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:52

LeopardPants · 30/08/2025 22:40

Years ago I heard a woman working on a supermarket checkout in France be super rude to a customer (was a while ago, from what I remember she seemed to lose it as was having technical issues with the card reader or something) and the customer was totally fine with it!!! In the UK that just wouldn’t happen!

Another worker in a clothes shop snapped at me as I’d tried clothes on and hadn’t put them back on the hanger (I would normally Tbf). I was slightly bemused that she was being paid to stand around (she was doing nothing) but still had a go at me for creating two mins of work.

The “customer is always right” culture definitely didn’t reach France 😆

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why you Flipping it back on to others?🙄 You chose not to put the clothing back on a hanger. Also she must be fed up of other English women /tourists doing same.

I’m English and I now feel I’m seen as lazy /rude even tho I would never behave like you or let my kids be feral

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:57

MumWifeOther · 30/08/2025 22:45

It’s definitely not all English children, but I do witness some very slack parenting and some very vile children, and I observe this most amongst English children. I’m not English and neither is my husband, we both grew up here but were parented very diffently to our English friends, and we are constantly astounded by the behaviour of some of the children we come across! We are also often told how well behaved our children are by teachers, other parents, friends and strangers which makes me think it’s not the norm.

Edited

Your right. I work in a primary school full of all types of ethnicity. I would say the polish , Indian and Chinese kids are easily the best behaved and hardest working. There parents are nice to deal
with also. The kids who climb on chairs, arrive late, shout, swear, come in with dyed/whacky hair styles are always English kids. There parents are a total
nightmare to deal with. I’m English btw

Thattimeofthenight · 31/08/2025 01:58

@Emmafuller79 are you quite well?

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 01:59

WhoaaaBodyform · 30/08/2025 22:49

I’m looking forward to OP coming back and arguing with everyone who has said she’s been unreasonable. We’ve not had a fun MN bunfight in a while.

FWIW I think OP isn’t even close telling the whole truth. A six year old doesn’t ever “very gently point out a necklace”. A mother shouldn’t ever take two young children into a gift shop and let them pick up and mangle whatever they want and sit in chairs that aren’t for them. Appalling behaviour.

I know. I wouldn’t give such young kids money to choose a gift either. It takes time and kids get overwhelmed by too many choices

I hate this “we have choices” nonsense that many English mums go on about 🙄

SemperIdem · 31/08/2025 02:01

Thattimeofthenight · 31/08/2025 01:11

It is. Did you take that to mean I literally have to compulsively touch everything single item on every single shelf of every single shop I ever enter?

God love you.

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If you’re going to use a touch of hyperbole to bolster a weak point, there is a risk people will take you literally and think you lacking in the ability to behave appropriately in social settings.

IAmNotASheep · 31/08/2025 02:05

I have three French penfriends all married and between them have 7 kids and I see very little difference in how I’ve brought mine up to how they’ve brought theirs up. The same goes for our German friends.

That said we are quite strict I suppose compared to some English friends
but the point really is that everyone is different and yes I think she was making very prejudiced comments about English people and their kids

as a side note. Were those teddies for adults or kids ? If they are for kids they shouldn’t be selling them with toothpick type things in the ears. That’s dangerous and here in the U.K. is regulated

I think perhaps the shop worker needs a different job if she can’t cope with customers and acts with such prejudiced views.
I wonder if she would have treated you like that had you bought something

user1492757084 · 31/08/2025 02:06

I have a low tolerance for children taking liberties with other people's things.

My children always knew that they never touch anything in a shop unless they have bought it. Just like if out to afternoon tea they had to eat the biscuit that they first touch on a plate of food being offered.

When too young to understand, I held their hand and if ever they touched something I would make sure it was undamaged, apologise and proceed straight out of shop.

You need to purchase the items that your children damaged (and donate to charity), or pay for them to be repaired.
I have bought chocolate that my kids touched near a check out - but of course they did not get to eat it.

You have to be very strict or going into a shop with children becomes a nightmare. In a VERY short time, children are well behaved in shops.

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 02:07

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 30/08/2025 23:00

That's just reminded me of last weekend when I was in a local library and a dad was letting two of his young boy climb up the bookshelves. He actually commented at one point that he was proud of their ingenuity in entertaining themselves (obviously all the shelves of books, puzzles and games weren't going to cut it). Every word was also shouted at the top of their voice, but again he made no effort to ask them to lower the volume even just a fraction.

A few members of staff were worriedly hovering nearby but none seemed to want to speak to him and I left because the noise was doing my head in so no idea if/how it was resolved.

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That’s awful but im not shocked, this occurs in my local library. Parents let there kids throw books, get all the toys out , climb in
shelfs , lie on the sofa, hog all the chairs.

I’d say dads with kids on there are the worst for letting there kids be feral but call it “exploring”’🙄

Staff won’t do anything and look at you
like a alien if you tell them to sort feral kids out!

Emmafuller79 · 31/08/2025 02:11

FloorWipes · 30/08/2025 23:37

As a teen my French exchange partner didn't just touch things in shops, she straight up shoplifted them.

I am constantly telling my DD to stop touching things in shops but she literally can't help it. I'm always fascinated by these people who "don't let my kids do x". How does that actually work?

It’s called parenting, you can look up how Tomdo it as you seem blissfully unaware 👍

parenting isn’t meant to be easy unless your lucky enough To have very easy to manage kids/ones without any SEN/ servants

askmenow · 31/08/2025 02:11

“NO” is a complete sentence. Children should not be picking up or touching anything in a shop.

From observation British parenting is lax and their children feral in comparison to other nationalities.

Gentle parenting ideology gone mad!

Thattimeofthenight · 31/08/2025 02:12

SemperIdem · 31/08/2025 02:01

If you’re going to use a touch of hyperbole to bolster a weak point, there is a risk people will take you literally and think you lacking in the ability to behave appropriately in social settings.

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What a shame for those people. Navigating life must be tricky for them.

I was in Ikea today. People pick up crockery and glassware to see how it feels in their hands, how weighty is it, do they like the shape... People touch the bedding and towels. In shops, people touch clothing, they pick up books and rifle through them, they open notepads to see what they’re like inside, they pick up soft toys to see how they feel, pick up ornaments for a closer look…

People touch all manner of things in shops all the time. (I mean obviously not all the time, eh? Coz when would they fucking sleep for all the constant touching of things huh?!)

French shopkeeper thinks English parenting is terrible

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