French shopkeeper thinks English parenting is terrible

[Turquoiseforever]

Long one sorry, but I've included details to try and give an accurate picture!

Holidaying in France currently and have had a memorable incident in a shop today that has given me some food for thought, just interested in other people's thoughts on this.

Gave my oldest kids (3 & 6) €5 each to buy a souvenir of their choice at our local seaside town. Most shops turned out to be quite bougie and aimed at adults, but saw one which looked hopeful. Had an A-frame sign outside with a plastic colourful beach windmill on it, and a rack of children's clothes. Went in and quickly realised it was again full of very valuable things. At one end was a basket of handmade crocheted teddies, handmaid kids clothing, and some wooden toys. The kids took a look at the teddies, picked one up each then sat in two kids chairs holding them on their laps for a few minutes while I had a quick look round the shelves around them. We had a look at a few other things together, for full disclosure: when we entered my 3yo picked up a very delicate cup which I quickly set down and reminded her not to do. As we were leaving my 6yo very gently pointed out a necklace to me on a very flimsy stand that started to tip over, which I caught before it fell and set upright again. They looked at a few other things without incident or touching.

We didn't spend long, said merci and went on our way. About 10 mins later a lady from the shop approached us in the street and informed me my kids had broken two toys in her shop. We went back with her and found out that the rabbit teddies they had been holding had some very thin toothpick-like sticks of wood in each ear (to shape them a bit) which had been broken by my daughters twisting the ears, pretending to give them a 'hair style'. I had no idea at all they had been broken. Obviously this is my responsibility and error of judgement, and was totally correct to be brought to my attention.

However, the lady also subjected me to a rant about how French children would NEVER pick things up in a shop, they are taught "limits", whereas all summer she has had English, German etc children visiting and breaking things and being given "no limits" by their parents. Complained we had left the place a mess and her husband had to tidy behind us, because the teddies were placed back in the basket but not sat upright as previously displayed (I had set the chairs back carefully but admittedly been distracted from checking the basket).

I pushed back (calmly!) on her generalised critique of my parenting, and she said she has just lost patience after a summer full of similar experiences and essentially admitted this lecture wasn't personal. Still, it was pretty heavy handed to give in public in front of my children and other customers.

To be clear I know I made an error. We had been in a few quite breakable shops already which required heavy parenting, and I guess I saw an opportunity for a quick relief for us all. Normally I would supervise my children looking at anything handmade, so it was a lax moment, but I did think they were just wool and stuffing and wouldn't suffer at all from light playing. Also, typically I wouldn't take my children into these kind of shops. They have never broken anything in a shop before!

I just wonder how humbled I should be. Did I just catch this lady on a really bad day? Was she a bit racist? Are french children really that obedient all the time? Should I strike it off as a bad day and move on without too much thought, or do I take the criticism on board more strongly and accept I should be stricter with things like this and re-evaluate my parenting?! Do we really have much lower standards in the UK?

It's a shame, we've had a lovely holiday but now I feel like we're not that welcome here and have been judged/looked down on in general. Do we really have a terrible reputation in France?

I thought that too. I'd love to know which part the took issue with.

As a teen my French exchange partner didn't just touch things in shops, she straight up shoplifted them.

I am constantly telling my DD to stop touching things in shops but she literally can't help it. I'm always fascinated by these people who "don't let my kids do x". How does that actually work?

French children/teens are some of the most difficult I have ever worked with (and I’ve worked with kids from most European nations).

This summer I encountered French boys playing football inside a hotel and when asked (in English) to move back to their floor they replied (in English) that they did not speak English.

when asked (in French) where their teacher was they replied (in English) that they don’t know what a teacher is.

when I eventually located their teacher (outside the building faffing about alone) he spoke to the boys who denied all knowledge of our interaction and the teacher literally shrugged and went and joined his colleagues in the hotel bar for several pints whilst the kids/young teens continued to run riot, climb out of windows and attempt to intimidate British staff and students.

I have always assumed the ‘French children don’t throw food’ trope, means the heavily supervised offspring of the Paris elite and that everyone outside the very rich and chic city set behaves the same of worse than the average British teens.

You physically remove them from the shop if they don’t stop.

No, because it’s a completely different thing!

I tell them not to and then… they listen! 8 year old and 3 year old old both. 🤷‍♀️ Of course they get over-excited sometimes, but I’m quite strict about their behaviour outside of the home and often really surprised about other kids not getting told not to do things!! Examples like pushing in a queue, playing with things they shouldn’t etc. If mine don’t listen to me then they get a warning and know we would leave (I’ve not had to follow through on this at all though). They’ve been to a lot of places, galleries, museums etc so used to being told not to touch stuff 🤣

I know, hence my post 🙄 I’m just sharing a couple of anecdotes from when I lived in France to demonstrate that. It struck me as something you would be pretty unlikely to experience in the UK.

Have lived in Germany for many years. Your comment is spot on.

The French children are so well behaved thing is something I’ve read on here a few times, along with French children all have great diets and eat anything, and French women are all thin and stylish. My SIL is French so we visit France often meeting lots of French people, I can confirm it’s all a load of bollocks.

I think it's the end of the summer and the shopkeeper might have had a rant if that's happened all through July and August. I note she didn't single out Brits if she also mentioned other nationalities - although that bit sounded a tad xenophobic. I'm a little sceptical about the claim French kids never do it, however I have observed parents over there being strict in shops about not touching displays (presumably as they don't want to have to pay for any damage). In future, I'd be a little more cautious when browsing with the kids in tow. I can't imagine British shopkeepers in a similar situation being too happy either.

Hello? Most people think this!

I would agree with the shopkeeper, British parenting is slack in comparison to French parenting. I split my time between both countries as have dual nationality. French parents have much greater expectations and hold their children to high standards in all aspects of life, including being able to sit at table and behave at mealtimes. This is how I was raised.

My experience is the French were a lot more comfortable with physical punishment. I have seen dc get absolutely walloped in public.

OP I used to live in France. French kids are the fucking worst.

Of course, I exaggerate. But honestly, they are little shits.

Yes.
I think the kids are behaved better, raised stricter. The downside is more physical enforcement of that discipline and also a way worse attitude to disability.

Weird. I touch things in shops constantly. That’s kind of the point of browsing.

It's illegal there now isn't it? Since 2019. (Unlike England.) Do they still do it?

@MulberryMoon it is now but imo it still happens & it was far more common when I was younger vs here & was less frowned upon.

Do you break them like OP's kids?

@Zezet the attitude to disability used to shock me. I have French family so spent a lot of my youth there & I remember thinking it was weird I never ever saw anyone in a wheelchair etc. One year I did see a disabled child & literally everyone (adults included) stared at the poor thing.

Because if they have been handled and played with, chances are they won’t be pristine anymore. The OP illustrates this perfectly, the children were allows to ‘twist their ears’ and they were broken. Unless they have been bought, or there is an intention to buy them, then the goods belong to the shop. It’s simply disrespectful to allow children to handle things that don’t belong to them, without permission. Basic common sense, good parenting and manners should tell you that.
Smyths and the like may be different if there are toys deliberately put out to be played with, which there often are.

I thought you meant they chose teddies to buy, so was surprised to read you hadn’t. The woman was rude but I think in general in the UK we are too soft on children. We’re making up for the tough love we got as kids but have gone too far the other way imo!

There’s a well known book called French Children don’t Throw Food - so maybe there’s some truth in what sure said?

Yes - didn't the belief that autism is the mother's fault persist in France well into the 2010s? I don't know if it's still prevalent today, I admit.

The good old days of 'look, but don't touch'. I miss them

We are much more lax in general than the French, I think. I'm pretty strict with my kids, there's 4 of them, so if I don't want a rapid descent into mayhem, I have to be. They are not allowed to pick things up and play with them in shops without asking, stay sat down when eating out, no screens at the table and aren't allowed to run about in shops/restaurants. Over there, I would be considered to be doing the bare minimum.

Every country is different in its expectations of behaviour and she probably gets a lot of tourists who just just cba to control their kids.

@Turquoiseforever I'm curious about the teddies. Were they kids teddies or some sort of posh ornamental type teddy never to be played with? I can't imagine kids teddies in the EU having wood inside them. What stops the kids getting hurt on the wood?

While I don't think kids should play with teddies you aren't intending to purchase. I'd also be a bit peeved if I'd purchased teddies that were damaged within 5 mins. But it sounds like they were much more delicate than you thought too