Human rights health visitor

[Erlisk]

I have seen it here before but the posts are old. Before my baby was born i told my midwife (UK) that i did not want any visits at home. I just like my privacy and want to be able to decide who enters my home. They offer visits as a service so i just decided to not let them in. I was happy to go for appointments.

Then in the hospital when the baby was born, they told me "someone was going to come into my house even if i do not want that". I kept saying no. They kept saying they just wanted to see where the baby would sleep etc. i said no. Then the midwifes came to the door and i told them i did not want them in my house. So they reported me to social services. Social services called me and threatened with official investigation if i do not let the midwifes and later health visitor in my house. Also for the one year visit.

I texted them many times i did not want. I also told them in person. So i have a lot of proof. Ok long story short i let them in.because they threatened with social services investigation = trying to take your baby. I had to let them in, they said everything was fine, and closed the case. But instead of bonding with my baby i was stressed that they were trying to take her away.

So. It is ten months ago so the one year visit is coming and I DO NOT WANT THEM IN MY HOUSE. So i decided to go after them. And yes, it is human rights violation. It is not normal in civilised countries that someone comes to your house without your consent and without a warrant. If you do not let them in they basically threaten to take your baby.

I am not looking for the comments that they are just helping etc. I am not interested in that 😉. What i am looking for here is other moms who went after them. I am researching where to complain. I am also making a list of solicitors who would help me. And maybe some group court case? I will make complaint to NHS. I believe we only have one year for this kind of thing so only people who experienced this last year. Or if you went through going to court and have a good no win no fee lawyer (London or Kent). They are violating human rights you everyone so no, i will not let it go.

This is really sad. If you have nothing to hide why are you so against a health professional coming into your home? I suspect your manners and attitude could raise concerns about your mental health.

The only person I know who refused to let a health professional in to see the baby went on to kill her baby in a psychotic episode, and then everyone complained about the HV not seeing the baby.

Could you suggest bringing the baby to clinic for HV checks at least?

I found them slightly inconvenient too as a very private person.

But I don't understand why you seem unable to grasp that it is for childrens protection? They are just doing their job.

In your quite unhinged case, you are inviting much more intervention I think...

This. Children have died when abusers have not let Health visitors etc into their home. What have you got to hide?

This..goodness what an overreaction.

They didn't threaten you, they warned you of the consequences. You ARE a walking red flag. You have your own reasons for not wanting a visit, that just happen to match anyone else's who lives in squalor, the baby is neglected, and an SS concern. Your somewhat obsessive and stubborn need for privacy could be perceived as a MH issue and putting your 'needs' above baby's, which is a red flag in itself. It's an unfortunate coincidence, but it is what it is.

Put simply, your baby's human rights come above yours. So, if you behave in a way that raises concerns with SS, you're just making life difficult for yourself. Possibly you could have gone about this a different way as PP's have not had this hassle, but now you've labelled yourself as obdurate and evasive, and SS want to know why.

Currently, you have no grounds to sue. No win no fee need a minimum prospects of success of 51%. You're nowhere near. If you want a lawsuit, you'll have to let them actually take your baby without grounds, which, from what you're saying, won't happen because you'd pass any visit anyway?

So continue making life difficult for yourself if you want, but you have no legal redress on this.

When you accept the NHS, you accept “terms and conditions”. Same as with free education - they can and will dictate when you can and can not take child out of school, as part of the social contract. If you don’t want to be dictated and have it on your terms only - opt out, go for private healthcare and private education, case closed.

I agree that nobody should force you to have anyone in your house that you do not want.
Those saying that has to happen to ensure the human rights of the baby are protected... many other countries do not have this sevice where they visit you at home and children as as well protected as in the UK, it is not like here child neglect has been erradicated or anything...I understand it can be helpful in extreme circunstances but I don't think new mums should be threatened with child removal for non compliance, that's awful.

Having said that, I had a midwife and one health visitor visit at home, that was all. Then I was attending their clinics at a health center, some childrens centers and they did the one year review in these locations too, I went to them rather than them coming to me, for the one year and also something at around 2 years or 2 years and a half.

I don't see how you can go for them until something happens (they have started taking action to remove your child - which they won't do because you rejected a visit!), so far nothing has happenned, so I don't see how you can go for them? I think you are getting too amgry over nothing. Maybe tell them you are in the process of moving and you don't know what address you will be at, maybe not same borough and if you can gl to them instead.

I think that @Erlisk was looking for an echo chamber on this thread and is disappointed to find that common sense has prevailed.

'Who do they think they are', professional people who have a responsibility to ensure that your childs' human rights are being fully met. Welcome to the world or parenting where you often have to put the rights and welfare of your child before your own beliefs. God help you when your child starts socialising and education.

It's not free though

Have you lived in the UK all your life OP? You seem surprised, but this system has been in place for decades. Do you not know anyone else who has had a baby apart from you?

Um, she DID decline the visit, @mummyh2016 , numerous times. Did you not read her post? They are not taking no for an answer! They ARE saying it's mandatory!

You have no idea how many children it has protected though because they're still alive and not reported in the press.

OP I don't know the hell these vile people are or where they get off browbeating mothers with newborns. Thank goodness my country doesn't have this thing. If I were you and they contacted you again I'd tell them you will call the police and get an order out against them. Who the hell do they think they are, bullying mothers like this? I would not answer the door I'd call through the door that I'm calling the police, AND reporting their car licence number. See how the thugs like that.

I hated the visits, especially with my youngest (who’s now 10). Just a hindrance when you already know what you are doing and have two toddlers and a baby to look after. I also didn’t want a stranger coming in my house so I understand where you are coming from OP

When I was doing my nursing training many years ago - as a slightly more mature student than most of the others - one of my placements was with either the local midwife or HV (sorry, but I can't remember which, as like I said, it was a very long time ago), she knew that I was already a mother - I got married when I was very young, and had my first child a few years later when I was 21 - and
that I was, therefore, already reasonably experienced in being a mum, and in being a member of the human race! I mean being experienced in things like sleepless nights, wanting to tear my hair out when my first baby just didn't see the necessity for sleep - especially at night-time! For the first few weeks I was also experienced in not having the chance to get showered and dressed until the evening, when my husband came home from work 🙈

My tardiness, sloppiness, exhaustion, even manifested itself on the days that my HV came checking up on us (in her very expensive looking velvet jacket - WTAF - which made me very anxious that my baby would throw up all over it)! So when my DH took over looking after our PFB beautiful little one, I would usualy manage to grab a quick shower, and then make us a quick meal (such as a beano - beans on toast with a piece of sliced cheese on top - as we were very poor at that time). After which, the evenings became a semi-conscious blur of sleepiness, love (for our gorgeous little scrap), exhaustion, love (for our new tiny little family), weariness, and half-awake cerebral love between my husband and me - I have no idea when our love was able to be expressed physically again...

Anyway, whoever I was attached to for that placement, quite rightly just gave me the normal spiel that she would have given to any of her 18+ year old students before they met the new mums. I still remember my mentor telling me that the first mum we were about to see that morning - who's newborn was her third child - would be in the marital bed either breastfeeding the baby, or changing the baby's nappy, or trying to nap along with the baby, or entertaining one or both of her other little ones, while they were all on the bed (it was a very big bed for those days), in a very jumbled bedroom. It turned out to be a "wonderfully untidy" bedroom, one which had piles of clean nappies, and many of the baby's changing things either on the bed with them, or strewn on any available surfaces, and some of her toddler children's larger soft toys and books as well - they were definitely not a minimalist family, which I loved because neither was, or am, I! I think that my mentor gave her students that sort of friendly 'warning' so that none of the potentially more genteely brought up students, didn't appear shocked when they walked through the bedroom door 😱

Well, I'm not sure that I can remember what point I was trying to make, but on the off-chance that someone may still be here with me, I will try to remember it .....

Ah yes, it was a very simple point, one that most people could articulate in a few sentences 🤔
"the midwife/health visitor that I was accompanying on her rounds, was not being at all nastily judgemental of the family we visited first, in fact she pointed out that the mum had been almost exactly the same with her first two children, just staying in bed with them for the first few days, so that she could just relax and bond with her new baby, without bothering with things like housekeeping etc, as nothing was going to matter for a few days! Of course, this mum was very, very, lucky that when she had her subsequent babies, either her own dear mum, or her DH, could stay with her, and take care of the other children, and make "mum" cups of tea, and sandwiches etc, whenever the new mum fancied them. My mentor said that she wished all new mums - whatever their circumstances - would just spend as much time as possible in the first few weeks, concentrating on their new baby, and any other young children they had, keeping them clean, fed and watered, and most of all, loved, and just be as relaxed as possible about an untidy home, or un-ironed clothes (yes, that was at a time when we still had irons in our homes!), or any visitors - she would tell new mums to only allow in any visitors who would make themselves useful, washing dishes, or running a vacuum cleaner over the most trafficked areas of the floor, putting a clothes wash on, and making their own cups of tea and coffee, and making them for the new mum too. She also encouraged new single mums, with no-one else to help at all, to try to only do the most necessary jobs, and to sleep whenever the baby did, and to ring her up if they ever felt overwhelmed.

So, I suppose I am hoping that @Erlisk will read this, and start to understand that community health workers are not usually the enemy - unless of course they are wearing an expensive, dry clean only, velvet jacket 😈

YABVU, and very aggressive here. If you’re like this in person I can see why they would have concerns.

There is a broader argument about whether the universal HV service is fit for purpose and it does sound as though it has become heaveir handed than previously in recent years.

It is expensive to provide and often the standards of provision are not high with inconsistent and outdated advice given regularly. I suspect it does need a root and branch review, not least because it costs a lot and is generally not as well received as it should be. Based on the performance of the HV who visited me as a new mother, under no circumstances would I have been prepared to rely on it in relation to the health and well being if my child.

When I was at the baby stage, admittedly 30 years ago now, the Chair if the HV Association was published in The Times saying "the role of the HV Service is to teach ignorant mothers the three c's: cooking, cleaning and communication. I was already unimpressed and that pronouncement did nothing to encourage me to see an HV ever again. One can only hope there have been some improvements.

I wonder if much of the investment would be better redirected into things like CAMHS.

I very strongly resent public money being spent on a service that is not performing competently.

You genuinely think that the police will arrest a Health Visitor or someone from Social Services for knocking on OP's door? What sort of order do you expect the police to issue?

What are the safeguarding arrangements for babies and children in your country? You sound utterly ridiculous and totally paranoid by referring to to health professionals as 'thugs'.'

What a hysterical overreaction.

The police would think the OP is nuts, and it would be a complete waste of resources.

some kind of alarm was raised and the child’s saftey comes first / before any of your wants and if you don’t see that well that’s a red flag in itself

uncoopertive mother possibly concealing something ?

and to be fair , reading your posts - human rights ! - I have concerns for your mental health - another reason to want to see that your child is safe in your home

This can’t be real?? 😆 😆 😆

I can understand why the health visitor said she would get social services involved if you came across to her how you’re coming across here 😆

Read this carefully please: rather than allow nice people to briefly check your baby is safe, you’re damaging your bond with your baby, risking them being taken away from you, creating a social work case file on you and now you want to start an enormously difficult and highly expensive court case, all to stop professionals coming into your home to quickly check your baby is cared for.
What are you going to do when baby wants play dates or sleepovers? If baby has an accident (and they will) how much prior evidence of irrational behaviour do you want on your file?
You need to urgently seek therapy for your fear and arrogance because like it or not, you live in a country that wants to protect your baby and will make sure they do. You are being illogical and hurting your baby. That’s not good, is it?

You have clearly behaved or spoken in a way during pregnancy or post-birth that has concerned the midwives and hospital staff. The way you have spoken on here is irrational and quite frankly ridiculous and it’s likely that the health professionals involved with you have also seen this behaviour and have raised it as a red flag.

Others have declined visits and not been referred to SS, but you have? Why is that do you think? Likely because of how you are coming across to them as being irrational and have something to hide.

Your desire for privacy and having no one in your home/limiting friends to visit does not trump basic child protection. Your child has human rights too and they overide those of the mother wanting privacy in her home.

But you are missing the point- often there isn't a "legitimate concern" in plain sight. Mum gives birth, goes home with baby. No one knows what happens after. But if you have HVs visiting there is at least a little hope if something's wrong it may be spotted.
Go ahead take them to court, you'll end up nowhere. If any changes are made, I bet it'd be the other way around - mandatory visits!