Human rights health visitor

[Erlisk]

I have seen it here before but the posts are old. Before my baby was born i told my midwife (UK) that i did not want any visits at home. I just like my privacy and want to be able to decide who enters my home. They offer visits as a service so i just decided to not let them in. I was happy to go for appointments.

Then in the hospital when the baby was born, they told me "someone was going to come into my house even if i do not want that". I kept saying no. They kept saying they just wanted to see where the baby would sleep etc. i said no. Then the midwifes came to the door and i told them i did not want them in my house. So they reported me to social services. Social services called me and threatened with official investigation if i do not let the midwifes and later health visitor in my house. Also for the one year visit.

I texted them many times i did not want. I also told them in person. So i have a lot of proof. Ok long story short i let them in.because they threatened with social services investigation = trying to take your baby. I had to let them in, they said everything was fine, and closed the case. But instead of bonding with my baby i was stressed that they were trying to take her away.

So. It is ten months ago so the one year visit is coming and I DO NOT WANT THEM IN MY HOUSE. So i decided to go after them. And yes, it is human rights violation. It is not normal in civilised countries that someone comes to your house without your consent and without a warrant. If you do not let them in they basically threaten to take your baby.

I am not looking for the comments that they are just helping etc. I am not interested in that 😉. What i am looking for here is other moms who went after them. I am researching where to complain. I am also making a list of solicitors who would help me. And maybe some group court case? I will make complaint to NHS. I believe we only have one year for this kind of thing so only people who experienced this last year. Or if you went through going to court and have a good no win no fee lawyer (London or Kent). They are violating human rights you everyone so no, i will not let it go.

This is factually incorrect. Some Articles in the HRA are absolute and some are qualified. Qualified means that public authorities can enter your home/contravene Article 8: respect for family and private life in the interests of, eg, health. In the UK, the wellbeing of a child is paramount by law and social workers have a duty re this.

I was in hospital for a week after my births. I didn't have any health care professionals in my home for my pregnancy, birth or postnatal care. But I and my DC were checked out by doctors, and later an HV, at several points.

There is no legal obligation on women in England and Wales to let midwives into their home before or after the birth. You can arrange to see a midwife at another location instead of your home if you want to. A baby who has not been seen by any HCP may be cause for concern. But if OP has received care for her baby from her GP, MW or HV at a clinic, that covers things. The state does not require families to let people into their homes to check it out as a matter of course.

It's about your baby not you, MN never 'disappoints'

OP I hope you and DC are ok and that you have support should you require it. I’m sorry you’ve felt It has been difficult to bond with your child and that this saga with the visits has contributed to it. There is a lot of help for post partum women struggling with MH / bonding with baby especially in the 1st year post partum so please do speak to your GP about it.

Whilst I do not know where you stand on the law with this I would just like to challenge the idea from your original post that social services referral / investigation = removal of children or as a PP has suggested SS would force entry into your home. I make several social services referrals in my job and often it is for information sharing and nothing further comes from that. Previous high profile cases have shown that different services were noting down concerns but not sharing this with each other. If there were other concerns raised about your child’s welfare, this builds a picture and informs of whether or not any additional support may be required.

As the PP who is a solicitor wrote, you do have a right to refuse and you could have continued to refuse entry regardless of the social services referral. This referral in itself would not have led to removal of your child unless there were other v serious concerns and it was in the best interest of your child to be removed - the threshold for removal is high and there is more emphasis on trying to support families who are struggling with their children and keeping families together. Referrals are made for all sorts of reasons, hundreds of times a day and often nothing further comes from it.

Whilst it has clearly felt to you like this was a threat, it is not and should have been explained as such. I’m sorry if this was not explained like this at the time. I appreciate for you it felt like you were then being forced into having people in your home because you would rather do that than have social services but that was a free choice you made.

you are within your rights as is anyone to take this further as you see fit.

Your writing style suggests you speak English as a second language, so I’m guessing you are not originally from the U.K. and there is some kind of cultural difference. Here in the U.K. health visitors and midwives have visited new mothers forever - long before socialised medicine or social services existed. This tradition was incorporated into the NHS when it was created because it was such an established and expected service. It is designed so mothers don’t have to make a special trip to a surgery. The social and welfare checks side is more recent, but has saved lives. You aren’t being spied on. It isn’t about rights. It’s about your and your baby’s wellbeing.

This is entirely true- this isn’t about you this is about your baby who has rights to be seen by a health visitor

I think it’s a catch 22. They say the HV service is not mandatory but if you refuse, it can red flags and they could contact SS.

It also depends which area you live in. I moved to a neighbouring local authority and for my eldests 2 year check and prenatal visit for my youngest, they wanted to see where they slept. No problems there. My friends who lived in the same area all had the same. One said they even wanted to check the bathroom that they had the correct toothpaste!

Once I moved back to my original local authority, they’ve never asked to see where my ds sleep. Wouldn't have a problem if they did but I do think it depends where you live.

It’s best to just let them in for the sake of 10 minutes. I did have one slightly nosy one but the majority have been lovely. FYI, it’s not just the 1 year visit, they also come once they turn 2.

That’s what I was thinking, in other countries (especially European), new mothers stay in hospital much longer.

My friend was in for 5 days for a natural birth and was shocked I was out less than 24 hours after an emergency c-section. The midwives are doing the checks which in many countries, would be done while the mother and baby were still in hospital.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many full stops in 3 lines, I wouldn’t take advice from someone who can’t even write a sentence properly.

@Erlisk you don't seem to have the social awareness to understand that your combative, defensive and OTT replies about "human rights", contacting solicitors and the CAB are a massive cause for concern.

What is the back story here?

They think they are there to ensure your child is safe and well. Because they are. Your attitude reeks of melodrama and will only serve to complicate things for you.

Is it your human rights or your Childs human rights that you are concerned about?

Nobody has to receive a health visitor in the UK, it's a service that is optional.

You won’t get anyone who went to court because it’s a stupid thing to go to court over and would get laughed out before it got there. You are being ridiculous.

Just decline it and get on with it.

Also gently maybe see a doctor too because not bonding with your child over something like this sounds like a separate issue going on.

Op it isn't mandatory, and I know people who refused HV visits without any issues. I wonder if the way you came across made them more concerned then normal so they raised it as a red flag. In which case you won't get anywhere going after them as they felt they had a genuine concern.

You are seem really focussed on your own privacy rather than the health of your baby which is unusual and worrying.

And it's a recognised red flag because refusing to engage with agencies involved in child safeguarding is a common feature in cases where babies and children have come to harm.

Just let them in, OP. Refusing just makes it look like you're hiding something. They're acting in the best interests of your baby.

A genuine concern you say? I wonder what it could be.

When DS was born (30 years ago) I had the delight of four community midwives and two students trailing in and out of the house. One was rude, one was indifferent, one was unspeakably chatty about herself and one was OK. They missed all the warning flags for mastitis, gave contradictory advice and never came at the time they said they would. On their heels was a 23 year old HV who was incapable of listening, knew nothing about bf, could offer no advice and told me I had to go for weighing at a clinic and that she was responsible for vaccinating my baby.

There is no legal obligation to accept a visit from an HV in the UK or to engage with their services. I believe there is an obligation to engage with a midwife in the ten days after the birth and if discharged from hospital.

I did make a formal complaint about the HV service. It was entirely incompetent and not in the least helpful. I have a firm view that if the country invests billions into a universal service there are some obligations in relation to spending public money wisely and ensuring those services are fit for purpose. It was Confirmed that I did not need to see a Health Visitor.

When I had my second baby I confirmed I wanted no HV involvement (fine) and that I would receive no more than two midwives into my home and they could check the baby. I was not prepared to answer intrusive questions about my sex life for a second time or have them checking me.

I don't think mother's can win whatever their circumstances. The fjrst time, I got spiky comments from some of the midwives because they walked into a substantial and lovely house.

Frankly, if I had any concerns about my DC they saw a suitably qualified paediatrician or specialist doctor, not a health visitor.

I had no qualms about making a complaint. Would I have done so if my circumstances were not pitch perfect. Probably not.

I think the law is on your side here despite what people say.
It's not mandatory to have a HV check and that's not a reason in itself for social service referral...so it shouldn't have happened unless there was more to the referral.

But I would think about whether it is really worth taking on the stress of fighting this for you and your baby. Could you ask for the 1 year check at a clinic?

Gosh so much energy being put into something so trivial . Best of luck going to court etc with this. I can’t understand this mentality at all.

Whether you want to hear it or not, they’re trying to ensure that your baby is safe at home. Once you have a baby it’s not all about you and what you want any more. If you really don’t grasp that then maybe you do need a little support.
By refusing visits and turning this into a big dramatic fight you have raised their suspicions so now they have to act.
Maybe just accept the visit and focus on bonding with your child?

Midwife here: I agree with all the other posters who say once you have a child, you no longer have all the ‘rights’ to privacy you once had. Your child’s right to a safe, healthy life is more important. We have all come across the Baby P stories where children are being abused at home - and neglect is a far bigger problem. Unfortunately I have seen too many homes where children aren’t safe due to unsafe sleeping areas/hoarding/parents with alcohol or substance abuse problems. We live in a country that tries (and doesn’t always succeed) to identify and help the children in these situations. In my experience, the parents shouting the loudest about their ‘rights’ are normally the ones with something to hide. So if you want to spend the next 17 years acting like this around authorise designed to protect your child, this will be a massive red flag and will ironically attract much more attention to yourself than less. Good luck!

Group court case!? Jeez yeah the health visitors can be annoying but ffs get over yourself.

I very much suspect you won’t be replying to anyone. Yes you do have human rights to a private/ family life, and to peaceful
enjoyment of property but both of those are subject to proportionate interference in accordance with the law. Your visits sound completely normal and routine. And it’s one of the measures to avoid horrible child abuse cases like Sara sharif’s becoming more frequent.

Plus you do realise that if you try to take this nonsense to court all that you’ll be doing is wasting taxpayer’s money?

Honestly your behaviour and approach to this is a red flag. I am not surprised a referral was made.