Human rights health visitor

[Erlisk]

I have seen it here before but the posts are old. Before my baby was born i told my midwife (UK) that i did not want any visits at home. I just like my privacy and want to be able to decide who enters my home. They offer visits as a service so i just decided to not let them in. I was happy to go for appointments.

Then in the hospital when the baby was born, they told me "someone was going to come into my house even if i do not want that". I kept saying no. They kept saying they just wanted to see where the baby would sleep etc. i said no. Then the midwifes came to the door and i told them i did not want them in my house. So they reported me to social services. Social services called me and threatened with official investigation if i do not let the midwifes and later health visitor in my house. Also for the one year visit.

I texted them many times i did not want. I also told them in person. So i have a lot of proof. Ok long story short i let them in.because they threatened with social services investigation = trying to take your baby. I had to let them in, they said everything was fine, and closed the case. But instead of bonding with my baby i was stressed that they were trying to take her away.

So. It is ten months ago so the one year visit is coming and I DO NOT WANT THEM IN MY HOUSE. So i decided to go after them. And yes, it is human rights violation. It is not normal in civilised countries that someone comes to your house without your consent and without a warrant. If you do not let them in they basically threaten to take your baby.

I am not looking for the comments that they are just helping etc. I am not interested in that 😉. What i am looking for here is other moms who went after them. I am researching where to complain. I am also making a list of solicitors who would help me. And maybe some group court case? I will make complaint to NHS. I believe we only have one year for this kind of thing so only people who experienced this last year. Or if you went through going to court and have a good no win no fee lawyer (London or Kent). They are violating human rights you everyone so no, i will not let it go.

Your post. It's there above my reply, no?

I think it's outrageous that they can threaten to take your baby away just because you refuse a home visit! Have Social Services not got more important things to do?

It's highly unlikely you'd get legal funding for this because the case sounds unwinnable.

That's not to say that lawyers won't take your money but even they should advise you'd be unlikely to win.

Your right to a private and family life can be interfered with if it's necessary, and checking on a vulnerable child, as all newborms are, periodically would likely fall into that

"In this country"...... The health visitors are doing a very important job.

Best for you to contact law firms, describe your situation and get their expert legal feedback.

No win/no fee …. Normally based on damages. How would you quantify damages you have suffered ? A lawyer will consider this when looking at your case. You might have a case … but might be no money in it.

Pretty sure it's this. Post birth midwife visits are not the same as health visitor visits you literally aren't yet discharged from their care and if you are going to refuse these visits they would prob need to keep you in hospital longer as its checking really important stuff like that your baby has started to gain weight, they have the heel prick tests done etc.

It's important these post birth checks are carried out you can't really opt out like you can with HV visits - because opting out of them shows the midwife you are putting 'privacy' ahead of your child's immediate health in the days after birth. That's why you were referred

You havent explained why you won’t allow a home visit.

reasons others refuse home visits:
violent man in house
convicted sex offender in house
child has no safe sleeping space
drugs in house
animal feces in house
no heating/water/ electric in house
house very unhygenic
dangerous animal in house
no cooking facilities
no floor coverings/space to play
house not wind & watertight

none of these may apply to you but how do workers help babies in these houses without visiting everyone?

can you find someone else who can be in the house instead of you during the visit eg father/grandparent- this should be fine if they are seeing you with the baby at clinics

not only your refusal but your attitude on this thread will be raising alarm bells for professionals

They didn't threaten you, they told you factually what would happen. They could not nor would not 'take your baby away' for not allowing the HV in, but you might get flagged to ss as a concern. Clearly your behaviour is flagging as a concern, given that it's very easy to opt out of the HV service.

🙄🙄🙄

You sound very unwell, op.
Just as well there’s someone looking out for your child’s welfare.

Refusing to let midwives in when they attend for an appointment and threatening legal action is aggressive, yes. Refusing postnatal care and the. Jumping straight to legal action is deeply irrational and paranoid.

Luckily, people aren’t standing by and doing nothing - the midwives followed the appropriate pathway to ensure that the baby was checked on in line with safeguarding policy.

Midwives making a safeguarding referral in the course of their duties are protected by law. There is no case.

The healthcare professionals did not force their way in, they cannot and would not do that. Any reasonable thinking person knows that children's services do not remove children without good cause so there is nothing to fear from a report to social services. Your thought process seems so distorted, it's concerning and that is likely why the professionals persisted in trying to see your child at home.
Everyone was very quick to criticise the professionals who visited Baby P, they also felt intimidated by the adults in the property who wanted their privacy respected and weren't assertive enough in saying they felt something wasn't right, but they felt it. Those professionals will live with that forever. The public vilification was horrific after the fact, but if little Peter's so called mother had posted about her privacy and rights and perceived threats she may have had supportive responses. Social Workers were told not to be judgemental and criticise parenting so his murderers were able to cover bruises with chocolate which the social workers weren't allowed to wipe off. It is essential to see children at home to protect them, only people with something to hide or with significant undiagnosed/untreated mental health issues would dispute that.

Holy shit now I have really heard it all.

There are no human rights violated here. Get a serious grip. I am actually offended at your interpretation of the law to suit you because you just don’t like a home visit. You can deny a home visit which you have done and they can then refer you to social services IF they have reason to suspect something. So you don’t want the visit and have been referred. There is far more to this story than you are letting on to.

And even if there were (which there aren’t) then your baby has the same rights which were violated equally.

Thank goodness we live in a country where they do home visits, care about children and protect them against abuse and mistreatment. Your wishes don’t outweigh all those children who should have been protected.

I truly hope you find a solicitor who takes your case (money) and clearly will only be doing so to make a name for themselves (and take your money) and like any case like this it takes a long time (and money).

No way on this planet you are winning this case and you are in serious danger of an investigation given your attitude and views.

This isn’t true, social services try their hardest to keep children with their parents, these days. If a child is at risk of actually being harmed, then they would be obligated to act. However, it still has to go through a court.

I don't expect child abusers or those that are neglecting their babies would want home visits either. By making all this fuss over a 15 minutes visit to check your babies sleeping quarters are safe and appropriate you are raising red flags that you could have a sinister reason for not wanting a home visit. They are protecting your babies human rights here OP.

Having read the Op's post, have mixed feelings. My health visitor always had a heavy cold when she visited, always very sickly, she was more of a hindrance than a help. Also, hvs and midwives can not keep babies safe, what about baby Finlay Boden in Chesterfield, and others like him?
Thought of the Constance Marten case reading this, she thought it was perfectly acceptable to move around from tent to tent, in winter, with a newborn.

It is mendacious of them to insinuate this and other posters are blinded to not get the issue here. You are completely entitled to not let them in and it shouldn't signal anything, and certainly not threats of contacting SS. Your HV is way out of line. I think some strongly worded letters from a solicitor will sort them out

PS I was the same. Felt it was a massive invasion of my space/privacy and declined future visits (was not threatened with SS for doing so).

Your baby has rights. It is their duty to check these are being met.
HV service is optional but I don’t understand why you consider your right to privacy to be more important than the health and welfare of your baby
Your combative approach is raising alarm bells, which is likely why SS became involved.

The MW has a statutory duty, until your baby is over a certain age, to ensure they are safe. Not you. The baby.

they are obligated to report that all is well.
so you can refuse to see the HV in your house but not the first MW visit.

the mw wil want to check the house is safe and the baby has a safe place to sleep.

if you come across as irrational in your refusal to engage with the MW Team home visit then they are duty bound to escalate it.

in case there is a reason that would put your baby in danger.

OP. Are you ok? You sound exhausted, possibly aggressive, possibly irrational and paranoid.
find someone to talk to.

Whem I had my first baby the last thing I would have had time and energy for would be starting a legal case against the midwife or HV.
I was grateful they came to me and didn't care if I was still in my dressing gown at midday.

Good luck, OP.

My own kids are teenagers now but I had similar when they were young except I stood my ground and they didn't contact SS, despite threatening. I believe this may well have been because I was an older and middle class mother. I saw them speak to younger mothers in an appalling and condescending manner.

I took my DTs to the HV clinic and found the HV abrupt and unhelpful. At my first visit she asked to arrange a home visit and I said I preferred to come to the clinic. She said she had to see where the babies slept and I just said "No you don't." At the second visit, same performance but followed by "I'll have to report you to SS." and I said, you don't have to report me to SS unless you have grounds to think there's something wrong. Refusing your service is not grounds for thinking something is wrong. It's a voluntary service. If you don't want me coming to the clinic I'm sure I'll manage without it." she pushed a bit more but I was adamant. I didn't hear from SS (whom I would not have let in, either). The HV didn't ask me again.

I think reporting you to SS and SS trying to force you to let someone in is shocking. Neither HV's nor SS have the power to come in and look around. Parliament hasn't given it to them. You can say no. They would need to provide reasons to the police that provide reasonable grounds for a belief there is concern for the children's welfare. If the reasons were sufficient, then a police officer could enter.

This is the route I would have taken insisting a police officer used their power of entry on the basis of having reasonable belief there was concern for my children's welfare. And then suing for unlawful search as refusing a home visit is not reasonable grounds for such a belief when the children have been seen to be well and well looked after in numerous other environments. I understand why you didn't, not everyone is confident of their position.

I'm not sure what you can do about it legally. It's a form of blackmail - do what we say or we'll do something we have no grounds for. But I'm not sure it makes the grade for criminality as intent will be the good of the child. I hope you can find a solicitor who can make a good civil case.

I don't know if the free speech union might see this sort of thing as within their remit? They seem to be a bit more literally about words, but maybe they know of an organization who would cover it. Liberty, perhaps? According to their website, respect for family and Private life is a Human right and includes:
Respect for your home
You have a right not to have your home life interfered with, including by unlawful surveillance, unlawful entry and evictions which don’t follow a proper process.

They don't take on individual cases but they have some legal resources for people looking for lawyers.

Your posts are a little inconsistent. Was it the MWs or the HV who made the initial referral?

And if you know that by refusing the visits shortly after leaving Hospital triggered the initial referral to SS which in turn caused such extreme stress for you that it affected bonding with your baby, why would you want to refuse again and put yourself through further stress?

There will be some people on the internet who will tell you that you should take Court action.

Some important things to think about have already been mentioned on this thread, such as which part of the Human Rights bill will you be making a claim under and how you will get a Solicitor to represent you under the No Win/No Fee basis.

I would also ask anyone who think that Court action is a positive way forward what experience they have of claims under the Human Rights Act and what their success rate was.

At the moment you’re coming across as one of those Freedom on the Land believers whose success rate in UK civil cases I believe is zero.

Given the stress refusing the MW visits and then the HV visits has caused you and how this has affected your LO already, i would second the suggestion of spending your efforts on some good therapy to explore why having a MW in your home for 10 to 15 minutes has caused such a strong reaction by you and why you’re willing to have SS reopen your case.

From how you’ve come across in this thread i would think that the reason SS may be interested is because of your own MH. You are seem really focussed on your own privacy rather than the health of your baby which is unusual and worrying.

Did you also refuse the visits shortly after the birth of your DTs by the MWs?

Midwife here: believe it or not, we have people who refuse all care in the PN period. No check ups for them and/or baby. No heel prick test, weighing, etc. It doesn't ring alarm bells. Most of these people will be the first to tell you if things aren't going to plan and it's within their rights to decline recommended care plans.

What does ring alarm bells is if someone won't even let you in.