Child faffing around/not paying any attention at clubs he wants to be at

[Losingthewillnow]

Hi

My daughter is 8 (yr 4) and I’m at my wits end, in particular with the way she acts in clubs.

She’s always been one to struggle with attention span, and I’ve always been happy enough to go along with the “she’s just young”.

School says she daydreams and needs to be kept on task but behaves well. Academically she’s no concern at all to the school, but personally I think she’s capable of much more just doesn’t have the focus (this isn’t meant as a stealth boast, I know she’s academically bright but without the focus/drive it evens out to average and that’s fine).

At home, she’s generally ok as she has some choice in what to do but still does have the occasional tantrum and quite often refuses to do homework.

The clubs she goes to and I stay are a disaster and she is definitely the worst behaved in both (football and swimming) and just mucks around the entire time. In football she’ll be doing karate kicks and rolling on the floor, swimming she’s constantly bobbing under the water and seems to try to pipe up with totally inappropriate remarks to try to be funny. She misses the instructions and is always clueless as to what she is meant to be doing. In the past, she was often in groups with older kids so I assumed it was just an age thing and she’d get better but it doesn’t seem to be the case at all. For Brownies, I don’t stay but have been collared by the leader about her lack of listening and her being a distraction to others.

These three clubs are ones that she enjoys and wants to go to, and afterwards she always says so genuinely that she thinks she concentrated well (with swimming and football she knows I’ve been watching) and gets upset if I say she didn’t.

I’m at a loss because I don’t know how to help. My daughter wants to be at the clubs but as time goes on she’s starting to become a bit of a nuisance when others want to actually concentrate and try. I’m the embarrassed parent of the kid that doesn’t do what they are told and disturbs others.

I’ve tried explaining that if she doesn’t listen she’ll get left behind (she’s most often a sub in football games because she’s a liability to the team, with swimming other kids are passing the stages much quicker because they do as they are asked, in school she’s dropped from “exceeding” to “meets”) and that the general silliness will not be tolerated for long by her classmates who all seem to be growing up a lot already.

I’ve tried bribery, which doesn’t work either because she’s adamant that she has behaved well when she hasn’t (and the emotional reaction she has does make me think that it is her genuine thought, because the bribery isn’t only some sweets etc. as a reward).

I really don’t want to cut ties with the clubs, but this seems like my last option! Football might be a possibility to pick up again later, but swimming and Brownies have huge waiting lists and if I give up the spaces they won’t be an option in the future.

Any advice or sharing of similar experiences would be appreciated. I’m just at a loss how to approach this because it’s not getting better with time.

edit - as is typical, I’ve noticed a typo in the title that can’t be changed. Daughter is obviously a she not he and I just don’t check my typing.

Hi @Losingthewillnow my experience with DD (9, turning 10) is quite similar, she struggled massively with focus and concentration in group activities and team sports. We’ve naturally reduced those and her hobbies are individual sports (swimming but in a group of 3 so very little waiting around) horse riding (mostly individual, occasionally small group and the instructor always makes her go first!). She’s also undergoing assessment for dyslexia which was a bit of a surprise when her teacher suggested it but we can see the signs now we’ve looked into it.
We’ve found the concentration has improved as she’s got older, we’ve also encouraged her to tell us in detail why she feels like she can’t sit still/concentrate/be quiet, heavily limited screen time and committed to getting her some sort of exercise every day (horses help with this!)
Reading all the feedback does make me wonder if ADHD rather than dyslexia (maybe both?) is at play but I wanted to offer some hope that is can and does improve

Thank you - I didn’t want to be “that parent” who tried to make excuses for my daughter but what you’ve said makes a lot of sense. I can be proactive by telling them what she reacts to best, and if they choose to act on it is up to them.

This seems like a much better option to try before the nuclear option of giving up the spot!

I do wonder if football is the ticking time bomb with it being a team sport. At the minute the other girls don’t care too much as they get more match time and my daughter doesn’t mind being a sub too much, but I can see it being a problem as they are getting more a more focused and she isn’t.

I might try having another chat about why she enjoys football and see whether it could be swapped for something else, even if that was a weekly trip to the park etc.

She’s not able to explain the lack of concentration at all, we’ve tried giving her lots of words but she just gets frustrated.

@Losingthewillnow we got (and still get) all sorts of answers from her re the behaviour but her common responses are:
I was bored
The others were too slow (so I got bored)
I feel twitchy/I’m itchy/my clothes felt wrong
I forgot the instructions but didn’t want to be embarrassed
Others weren’t playing fair/following the rules/doing as they are told so why should I
Someone distracted me
The teacher doesn’t like me

Other stuff is popping up now she’s older around being different and not liking what everyone else likes and we are still working hard on why repetition and practice are important (horse riding has again been brilliant for this, but anything where she can see she’s progressed is great).
Team sports/group activities aren’t for everyone, maybe your DDs strengths are in more individual activities ❤️

I would stop the clubs as she is you say behaving badly which must be a trial for the leader and the other children.

What you've described is exactly how I was as a child, even down to the teachers describing me as day dreaming all the time. After struggling through most of life, as an older adult I've realised I have ADHD, for me it presents as inattentive.

It wasn't that I was naughty or disruptive or disrespectful, I simply could not concentrate for any length of time, not individually and not in team activities. So I never knew what I was supposed to do even when I'd just been told, and anything that involved relying on others and them on me such as football were always a disaster.

When you tell her she hasn't paid attention or behaved and she is upset because she believes she has - it's because she doesn't know any different to how her own brain works, so to her it is normal.

For me, I need things to be visual and active. If being given instructions, I need to be given something written or illustrated so I can read it myself rather than hear it verbally (which would go in one ear and out the other). If learning something, I need to just start doing it and learn as I go.

Thank you for those ideas of reasons, if we can provide her with some ideas that she might relate to it might help her open up. The ideas we’ve given as suggestions for reasons are very adulty so might not resonate with her.

I’ve definitely got no issue with her not being a team sports person and this is definitely the way we are heading, I would be very reluctant to let her swap football for another team sport based upon her behaviour when she will just let the team down if she was on a pitch.

This has definitely rung some bells - if instructions are written down she will follow them, if they are spoken she might do part of a task and then forget/not remember.

This sort of relatively simple.interventions can and should be implemented at school if they are finding she is drifting off. Ds sat at a table at primary with a group of children who all needed written or visual prompts so it just happened seamlessly.

It's may not be that she's forgetting the instructions. She may simply not be hearing them in the first place.
For lots of people with inattentive ADHD auditory processing is a problem.

Please, for the sake of the leaders and the other kids, have the de ency to pull your kid out.

Gross comment in a thread of actually helpful comments.

Sounds like inattentive ADHD.

Yep, that’s exactly what we should do for children with disabilities. Exclude them.

OP, try asking the instructions to start by saying everyone listen, or Helen listen and then give simple instructions. I once worked with a PE teacher who used to give most simple 2 to 3 word instructions to make processing easier. It was odd to hear “Jack run” or “Mark stop” but it worked well.

Primary schools are notoriously a bit crap at putting forward for assessment as many behaviours can be age related, it's expensive and actually Primary teachers don't have a exposure to different needs as they get 30 children a year and quite often bright ND children manage to cope just fine at Primary even if a little day-dreamy and start to struggle massively when demands increase at Secondary..

By Secondary when teachers see 150 children a day, up to 450 a week that's when they often get put forward for assessment. But, if it isn't affecting her grades, and her behaviour isn't a challenge or dangerous to anyone there still isn't the motivation to take it further and the NHS waiting list is many years long almost everywhere. If you go for assessment via NHS or Private teachers will be sent a questionnaire and on that is things like "Does the child daydream", "does the child follow instructions" and then options of: Never, Rarely, Sometimes, Often and Always. From what you have written your Daughters behaviour would match alot of the criteria.

I’ve considered it.

But no-one else seems to so as entitled as it sounds I don’t see why my child (who struggles listening/following instructions but has no direct impact on any other child, just herself) is any worse than the one who hits people when she gets cross or the one that cries in the corner when they aren’t picked or the one that is just plain mean to people.

I will do anything I can to make things easier for the leaders/coaches and I’ll definitely act on a helpful suggestion here about discussing what seems to work with them.

She definitely is struggling (as am I seeing this all unfold), I’m not going to remove her purely to appease others if it’s not the best thing for her.

OP, we didn't get any support from school when I suggested DD might have adhd. Apparently she was fine there, no issues.

I went ahead with the assessment, school got sent the forms, and low and behold, all these issues suddenly came out. Apparently she sits and plays with others' hair in assembly, will sit on her knees and rock instead of on the desk, interrupts teacher conversations and is constantly grabbing things impulsively. I think once they had the questions they realised it was an issue. But they still didn't flag her as inattentive, all the issues they flagged were hyperactivity..because she achieved well and doesn't make a fuss with work they completely missed her inattentiveness. We flagged that, so she got diagnosed with combined type. You can also ask for assessments from other contexts, like her swimming and football coaches.

If you do decide to swap sports, my neurodiverse child who did not manage team sports has done really well with parkour and bouldering.

That’s interesting, did you go private for the assessment?

If it was an option to have an additional person complete an assessment that would undoubtedly flag issues. My concern here is that the coaches won’t do this regularly and it’s potentially putting them on the spot a bit, but if it was an option I’d definitely take it up.

Maybe we would be similar with the school forms too, while they say she’s fine their definition of fine is most likely not causing havoc (which she doesn’t, she just does things in her own little world) smaller things that aren’t disruptive might be flagged.

She does love the occasional trip to Clip n Climb so bouldering/climbing could be something we could do together in place of football possibly.

I’m not sure she has the spatial awareness for parkour, she’s very clumsy!

Chances are there is nothing actually wrong with her OP. She could just be a bit immature and will improve with age. She doesn’t sound disrespectful as such.

Immature is definitely the case. However, at 8 she’s still the one that is not paying attention and doing all of the silly/babyish things and from the way she acts you’d say she was younger than the 5 year olds in the same clubs. As I said before, she’s always stood out a bit and I put it down to age, but more than 3 years is quite a long way to be behind in behaviour related skills.

Any suggestions on how to bring her on a bit if she is just very immature?

Do you baby her at home (be honest - it’s not a criticism). If so, don’t.
It os only partly her fault. The adults in charge of these activities need to be a bit firmer.
Many teachers say year 3 is split into the girls going on 21 and the ones who still need to be in Reception

We did go private but to a firm that only employs NHS consultants and deals with the NHS backlog, complies with NICE guidelines and can prescribe or refer back to NHS for future medication needs. They are also on the right to refer list.

No. Just no. As a parent of a child with adhd, and a scout leader. No.

We are inclusive at Scouts, I'm sure Brownies is the same. Once we are told about issues, and strategies, then we will work with the child and parent to make sure they can access everything we do in a way that works for them. Yes, it is sometimes hard work, and there can be behaviour issues, but there are always behaviour issues, not just from the kids with additional needs.