Child faffing around/not paying any attention at clubs he wants to be at

[Losingthewillnow]

Hi

My daughter is 8 (yr 4) and I’m at my wits end, in particular with the way she acts in clubs.

She’s always been one to struggle with attention span, and I’ve always been happy enough to go along with the “she’s just young”.

School says she daydreams and needs to be kept on task but behaves well. Academically she’s no concern at all to the school, but personally I think she’s capable of much more just doesn’t have the focus (this isn’t meant as a stealth boast, I know she’s academically bright but without the focus/drive it evens out to average and that’s fine).

At home, she’s generally ok as she has some choice in what to do but still does have the occasional tantrum and quite often refuses to do homework.

The clubs she goes to and I stay are a disaster and she is definitely the worst behaved in both (football and swimming) and just mucks around the entire time. In football she’ll be doing karate kicks and rolling on the floor, swimming she’s constantly bobbing under the water and seems to try to pipe up with totally inappropriate remarks to try to be funny. She misses the instructions and is always clueless as to what she is meant to be doing. In the past, she was often in groups with older kids so I assumed it was just an age thing and she’d get better but it doesn’t seem to be the case at all. For Brownies, I don’t stay but have been collared by the leader about her lack of listening and her being a distraction to others.

These three clubs are ones that she enjoys and wants to go to, and afterwards she always says so genuinely that she thinks she concentrated well (with swimming and football she knows I’ve been watching) and gets upset if I say she didn’t.

I’m at a loss because I don’t know how to help. My daughter wants to be at the clubs but as time goes on she’s starting to become a bit of a nuisance when others want to actually concentrate and try. I’m the embarrassed parent of the kid that doesn’t do what they are told and disturbs others.

I’ve tried explaining that if she doesn’t listen she’ll get left behind (she’s most often a sub in football games because she’s a liability to the team, with swimming other kids are passing the stages much quicker because they do as they are asked, in school she’s dropped from “exceeding” to “meets”) and that the general silliness will not be tolerated for long by her classmates who all seem to be growing up a lot already.

I’ve tried bribery, which doesn’t work either because she’s adamant that she has behaved well when she hasn’t (and the emotional reaction she has does make me think that it is her genuine thought, because the bribery isn’t only some sweets etc. as a reward).

I really don’t want to cut ties with the clubs, but this seems like my last option! Football might be a possibility to pick up again later, but swimming and Brownies have huge waiting lists and if I give up the spaces they won’t be an option in the future.

Any advice or sharing of similar experiences would be appreciated. I’m just at a loss how to approach this because it’s not getting better with time.

edit - as is typical, I’ve noticed a typo in the title that can’t be changed. Daughter is obviously a she not he and I just don’t check my typing.

Honestly OP, this sounds like neurodiversity. And I would be annoyed that the school doesn't think the drop from exceeding to meeting is a problem. I think you need to start exploring an assessment.

I agree with the above poster.
Have you had a blunt word with her explaining that if she messes around the clubs stop?

It sounds as if she really does struggle. She isn't trying to be naughty, and she's baffled when you say she didn't concentrate well.

I'd have a chat with her and see if she really genuinely does enjoy all the clubs. 3 clubs might be too much for her, she is only young still after all. Why not drop the football and switch her to one-to-one swimming lessons where she can get focussed attention from a swimming instructor. And the rest of the time just focus on letting her have free play. If she's struggling with her attention at school, it's probably too much to ask her to do the same again at a club. She's just a kid and needs time to muck about.

I wouldn't look to introduce more clubs on top of what she does, I'd cut them altogether. But in place of football, is there an area of interest that you do see her concentrate well in that you could look to joining her in a club?

At 8 years old one-to-one swimming lessons once a week and brownies once a week would be enough though.

Agree. I think it's worth considering that she can't concentrate to the level required for her to take part in these activities/progress at school and look to investigate why that is and what strategies might help.

She says she is concentrating when she isn't

Can you find some way to flag ( perhaps at home ) when she isn't concentrating on the right thing - so she has instant feedback ?

Can you do something to help build attention span ? An exercise video or a craft activity so she learns what paying attention really is ?

My DD was like this.

Genuinely loved and thought she was good at ballet and the teacher had to collar me and get me to stay so I could see it.

She wasn't good and she also wasn't capable of seeing the difference between herself and the other kids.

We did a fuckton of practice for her grade 1 ballet in the garden and really worked on her recognising the various feet positions etc.

Fortunately she was too ill to sit the exam (a genuinely well timed tummy bug) and after that it was agreed that she'd stay with the class but not do exams.

A year or so later she changed school and couldn't make the class anymore.

My advice:
Drop the football. The team plays as a team and they'll notice and she'll get comments.

Swimming is much more of an individual thing and the other kids don't care so much. It's only her own progress. If you care about how much she progresses do some more practice yourself by taking her.

School - again, try to do practice at home - just reading and maybe a maths workbook. Focus on her noticing what she gets right, and whether she is doing better than last week/last month.

I had wondered this myself, but the school have always just said she’s day-dreamy but gets on fine. I haven’t wanted to push (as they see her in an environment with 30 other kids to “compare” to, and I wondered if I was just overthinking and being overly critical of my daughters behaviour because of my own insecurities about being the mum of the misbehaving child.

Aw god love her OP, she's not misbehaving. She's just a bit goofy and dreamy. ND or not, she's not misbehaving.

The clubs aren't for her so get rid of them. My friend has had fantastic success with one-to-one swimming lessons for her child. Why not set that up for her, drop the football, and make more time for free play and silliness.

Is there any other areas you see she has a natural drive or talent for? It doesn't need to be a sport or academic. There are all sorts of fantastic clubs like Lego clubs etc.

We did this with her dance class, and followed through and stopped it. Lots of tears at the time, but no impact at all on the behaviour at other clubs.

As I’ve mentioned, Brownies and swimming aren’t things she’d ever be able to go back to if she stopped so I really don’t want to resort to that. Football could go, but she really does love it.

Yeah, but the school isn't that conerned her drop in academic success so I'm not inclined to have too much faith in them. Sorry.

Also, as I discovered to DS' detriment, schools are not great at identifying inattentive ADHD. They seem to think it's just "trouble focusing".

My dd has been diagnosed with combined type ADHD and was exactly the same with swimming. The only solution really (apart from medication which we haven't looked at yet) was to be incredibly stern with her and sit on the side at all clubs and give her hard paddington stares if she messed about. After a term of that she settled down.

The tricky things with dropping the clubs is that exercise is one of the main things that seems to help attention and ADHD beyond medication. I wonder if doing a more rigorous warm up with her before each club might help?

If 1-1 swimming lessons were an option I’d jump at them, but unfortunately they just aren’t available near us past the baby pools. I’ve asked the Council and they’ve said unless there’s a disability there’s no chance.

There’s honestly nothing I can think of that she would reliably stay focussed in, one week I might think she’s into art but the next week it could be biking!

Is this started by discussions with the school? They don’t seem too concerned, but maybe I haven’t been blunt enough with what I see outside of school for fear of being a pushy parent.

We have signals in the clubs so she knows I don’t think she’s behaving well/listening/doing what she’s meant to. These might help for a minute or two as best.

I've been a Cub leader (now with older age groups) so I'll speak to Brownies. These outdoor-focused, mixed-activity clubs are great for kids with ADHD, but it can be really hard on the leaders. Are there any tactics you use successfully to get her focused? I had one little boy who really responded to being given a social responsibility - someone to look after, or a skill to teach the others, or some equipment to hand out. He could only listen when he was also doing something else! It was his mum who put us on to it. Didn't always work, but it worked well enough that we all persevered.

@Losingthewillnow

Are there no private swimming tutors?

What is her play like at home? Will she concentrate on one thing for any length of time? Lego, doll's house, reading, imaginative play? Etc.

She sounds like a classic presentation of female adhd. Everything you say is what was said about me as a child.

My son was daydreamy and found it hard to focus in class and in activities.

He has inattentive type ADHD. Because he wasn't mega hyperactive and causing havoc in class his school decided the best thing to do was punish him for his lack of concentration by keeping him to do his uncompleted work at break and lunchtime, rather than working with him during lessons to keep him on track. And they threatened him that he'd have to do his work at home, which I told them I would not be doing!

So schools tend to be pretty clueless about inattentive adhd, even with a diagnosis. Getting a diagnosis can be tricky if school aren't onside - it took 3 years for my son due to one of his teachers insisting everything he was doing was normal (my son also has autism) 🙄

I would definitely ask to talk to the SENCO and check out inattentive adhd.

Without the support of the school, how on earth do I access any diagnostic services though? Quite reasonably, they all think the place a child is at 30 hours a week know them best and expect referrals to come/be supported by schools.

I think because he behaviour doesn’t impact others too much (she’s content to entertain herself and doesn’t typically drag in anyone else unless they engage with her) she’s not a problem to school and she’ll be gone in two years!

Your last paragraph resonates to me, as someone who has ADHD. The behaviour you're describing is classic presentation in girls tbh. It's usually at this age that the masking ability starts to slip a bit, as expectations get higher and peers mature and the differences become clearer both at school and out of school. If this is the case, she will absolutely believe she is doing her best to concentrate etc, because she is, to the best of her ability

We went to our GP first who referred us and then we got forms the school had to fill in.

But ultimately, we did have to go private eventually.

I definitely get that it’s hard on the leaders. If I thought it would help I would offer to stay, but I honestly don’t think it would change anything. I have such an appreciation for the volunteers, and I appreciate they don’t want their time taken up with difficult children.

I totally agree with the type of club seeming good because of the differing activities every week.

Your description of the little boy does sound familiar, if she’s busy with an easy task she picks up on what is being said but if she’s left with the sole task of listening she gets very unfocused and misses everything!

Sounds like adhd tbh. It’s so rampant in my family that I didn’t even realise any of us had it. I knew my son was autistic and got his diagnosis 20 years ago but turns out we are ALL audhd to some level in my family.

myself, I was a picture perfect student, academically gifted etc in primary, but was known to be a chatter box and a day dreamer. In reality the classes just didn’t hold my attention so I would zone out. In Highs hook I was the same until about age 12-13 where everything went to shit and I went to the bottom sets and started bunking. Left high school with zero GCSEs despite being more than able. In hindsight, I couldn't regulate my emotions and I was constantly searching for risk taking behaviour and conflict to boost my non existent dopamine levels (that’s what adhd is, a dopamine deficiency). As a late teen/young adult I ended up with drink and cocaine issues. I’ve never been able to hold down a job for more than 12 weeks, and it took me 16 years bit by bit , juggling family etc to get a degree and a masters but I did it and also gained other qualifications.

I was diagnosed bipolar 16 years ago but in reality nobody knew anything about adhd in girls and women then. I know I have adhd. All of my children have a diagnosis/are on the pathway and interestingly both my daughters now are 25 and 16, raised in much better circumstances than I was, and had exactly the same high school disaster as I did. My eldest left with 1gcses, my youngest failed her mocks, refused to attend school and so we rushed through a private diagnosis and got her on medication and by some miracle that helped her to pass all of her GCSEs with decent grades. Her teachers were shocked as they dish believe she had any additional needs as she was the bubbly popular girl, the helper, the social justice warrior etc She now realises how much medication helps her and takes it every college day , she’s doing engineering now and wants to work in F1. 2 year’s ago she was suicidal, self harming and wouldn’t go to school as she couldn’t cope.

You've described me as a child.
Right down to karate kicking during football classes.
I was diagnosed with inattentive ADHD at age 54.
She is unable to listen to instructions and focus on the activity without a monumental amount of effort.
She has choice at home which means the PDA doesn't kick in too often, but no choice over homework which causes 'tantrums'. Have a look online at PDA in ADHD, the physical reaction is not a tantrum.
Bright girls with this type of ADHD go under the radar because they're not actively disrupting the classroom and their results aren't dragging the overall scores down.

Suggest it to the leaders! My favourite parents are the ones who really know their kids and suggest things we can try. Maybe she could be responsible for handing out equipment? Or taking the register? They may have a perfect task for her - but they don't know that she can listen and work more easily than she can just listen.

That little boy is one of our Scouts now and, while his behaviour can still be a little unhinged he's so skilled and smart and interested that it's easy to forgive. He doesn't mean to make anyone crazy - it's just a side effect!