Nearly 3 years of daughter not sleeping through

[Peebleneeb]

Hi,

I’m at wits end with no clue how to improve my daughters sleep and desperately need help or advice.

For background my daughter was born in March 22 extremely premature at 24 weeks weighing just 1lb. We spent 4 months in 3 different NICUs across the UK getting her better and nearly lost her twice (as in were told she was dying). I’m telling you this as I’m not sure if this could be part of why she is a bad sleeper- or if it’s why maybe we created sleep crutches and completely avoided (and don’t like the idea of) sleep training of any kind. Because she’s so precious.

So to the sleep issue… My husband and I are absolutely zombies because my daughter is now nearly 3 (in a couple months) and still wakes up at least twice a night screaming for me. She has never been a good sleeper- has had us up anywhere between 1-10 times a night since she was born- now it’s mostly twice a night with a hellish bedtime. She has a nap midday-1.30pm ish sometimes 2pm each day but I’ve been trying to cap it (she is super grumpy when I cap it though so finding it hard). She goes to bed at 7.30pm/8pm and usually wakes for the final time anytime between 6-7am.

She takes anywhere between 20 minutes to an hour to get to bed and insists we stroke her hair or hold her hand. She has white noise machine (has always had this), a very dim night light on, is still in a cot bed with rails up as doesn’t and can’t climb out yet, has a duvet and pillow now but in the past has had sleep sacks. We have the exact same bed time routine and have for as long as I can remember- it’s milk, brush teeth, put pull ups on (she is potty trained during day now), read 1/2 books, put in bed and then I lie next to her until she’s asleep. I didn’t always lie next to her - when she was younger I could put her down stroke her head a bit and then walk out after 5 mins but she started screaming when I left so the only fix was to lie with her. It worked for awhile but now she wants us to stroke her hair too and screams and screams like she’s being murdered if we don’t, or if we leave. I am losing my fucking mind!!!

We are so kind and gentle with her but I hold firm boundaries in day to day life so I’m not a pushover- except for when she screams like that at bedtime and at night as I can’t bear it. I do most bedtimes and wake ups but daddy does a few as I work early shifts half the week (4am alarm). We have tried: turning off white noise, turning off night light, turning on brighter lamp, singing, reading to her while in bed, just walking out (lolllll nope), let her cry max 5 mins then go in (can’t cope any longer as she REALLY screams), just talking to her and asking her to go back to sleep if she wakes in the night, asking her if anything is frightening her and why she wakes up (she doesn’t know).

Is this unusual? What can I do? I can’t do this any more I’m going insane!

Thank you in advance ❤️

I'm responding to posters who are speaking directly to me.

My ds woke at night every night until age 4 and then it slowly reduced to never.

It a mix of habit and how sleep cycles work.

We just taught ds to come and climb in bed with us - he would blearily stagger into our room and fall asleep. No drama.

Age 6 and he still prefers to have someone sit in his room while he goes to sleep - that is entirely habit! If I have to “pop to the loo” I often find he has nodded off while I’m gone.

There is nothing wrong with your dd at all, just find a path through this that you’re able to tolerate.

You will not have a 7 year old with this problem, I can (almost) guarantee!

For people saying it's some kind of lax parenting, I would point out that my DD started sleeping through at 5 months, was in her own room earlier than that and was never fed/rocked/held to sleep. I thought that I'd won the baby lottery. Then she stopped sleeping through at 20 months and still doesn't now at 5 yo. It was nothing to do with what I had or hadn't done.

I was born more than 40 years ago when parenting was indeed a little 'different' and I still remember getting into bed with my mum in the night until I was at least 5 yo. My older sister didn't sleep through the night until she was at infant school and my mum left her to cry without success (she clearly changed her approach with me!). The truth is that children haven't changed, but are approaches we take as parents have maybe become a little more humane.

Fucking nuclear is a great term to describe it 🤣
We also live in a semi detached house and I can’t have mine waking up elderly neighbours.

Ive been considering a weighted blanket. Where did you get yours from?

Again, you are assuming that it's you, and because you used strategies that those of us in sleep deprivation land haven't.

My good sleeper's sleep 'broke' at the 4m regression. It wasn't terrible, but certainly nowhere near sleeping through.

So we did something about it.

We used strategies one at a time until something worked and sleep improved. For a while. Then deteriorated again. Each time we would try the previous techniques, new ones, get advice, read books. We weren't passive.

Things got pretty bad at about age 2.5, but we found a strategy that worked and she slept through most of the time from 3-4, going to sleep independently. Then she stopped again.

Thank your lucky stars that the strategies you used not only worked but lasted.

The OP wasn't necessarily looking for solutions but solidarity with other similar parents .

Yes same too - were mid terrace with elderly neighbours too!

I think it was a silent night one from Amazon, we could possibly have done with something a little more weighted as she still manages to kick this one off!

@Babyboomtastic

The OP wasn't necessarily looking for solutions but solidarity with other similar parents .

The first line of the OP says that she "desperately needs help and advice."

I am giving my advice whether you want to attribute that to luck or not. The OP can take it or leave it, but I don't think it's for other posters to tell me I can't give advice on a thread looking for advice.

Oop I hit a nerve- sorry, all you need to hear is that you are not better than me or any other mum. I asked for advice yes, but as I have said 3 times now - we tried exactly what you described for months, it didn’t work. We stuck to methods we tried for at least a month each time. All children are different. It could in my case simply be because she was separated from me in an incubator for 4 months so she wouldn’t die - lots of preemies have sleep issues. Hence mentioning her NICU journey when asking for advice.

Your comment “one of us has a child who sleeps well and the other doesn't, and you've come looking for advice” comes across so nasty. But hey, apparently your child is “a difficult little so-and-so” and mine is not - she’s a bloody fantastic kind caring calm toddler- so if you want to compete then I know who has won 🥲

I genuinely thought you were just trying to help at first, but the fact you keep gunning at the same advice I’ve said I’ve tried and making comparisons that suggest you are a better parent and being pretty pointed in your phrasing tells me otherwise. I won’t respond to you anymore because I feel you’re just looking to cause drama and I don’t care for it or have time for it.

@Peebleneeb she's the one who ruined my sleep deprivation thread and made me unable to go back to it and now shes trying to do the same to your thread too by the looks of it. She pops up on loads of threads upsetting people with her 'advice' but never listens when people tell her to change her time. She was on a weaning thread yesterday being really patronising and when the op called her out on it she just defended herself and carried on and on. Try not to let her get to you and good luck for the night ahead. My kids had a really busy day today so whether that will help or not who knows 🙏🏻 x

Tone not time

Your comment “one of us has a child who sleeps well and the other doesn't, and you've come looking for advice” comes across so nasty. But hey, apparently your child is “a difficult little so-and-so” and mine is not - she’s a bloody fantastic kind caring calm toddler- so if you want to compete then I know who has won

I don't know why you think this is nasty, it's simply me explaining why I responded to the thread: my child sleeps well now and you started a thread as someone whose child doesn't. That's literally the fact of your post.

For someone not interested in drama and calling other people nasty, you are dishing out a lot of nastiness based purely on projection when I'm only offering advice. You don't want to take it, that's fine.

My son is a lovely little boy: kind, polite, sweet-natured, never tantrums. He's also 3, and can be difficult at times like any 3 year old. I am only trying to empathise with the struggle of raising young children.

You are the one bringing notions of "winning". I'm simply offering advice as someone who came out the other side of bad sleep. Why you think this means I am being nasty or need to show I'm better than you is all in your own head. My only reason for answering your post was to give advice, as much as you and others are determined to say otherwise.

If you only wanted solidarity then you should have said so in your OP, but you don't need to start being sarcastic and rude to posters like me who offer advice that's straightforward and to the point. It's just sensible advice that isn't sugarcoated. If you've tried everything then I really don't know why you've posted this thread- clearly no one will have anything to offer in that case.

My posts stand as someone who has overturned a problem sleeper so at least they will be useful to others even if you have taken umbrage with them. It's the same advice that has helped many friends of mine so it's hardly nonsense. I don't read threads from other mothers struggling with sleep and look to upset them- I offer plain advice of what worked for me. I'm afraid you and another poster have certainly got the wrong end of the stick and are taking straightforward text far out of hand and getting wound up where no ill intent exists.

If you had any kind of real understanding of children and babies you would know that this is normal toddler behaviour. You are not a better parent so respectfully stop talking down to people on their posts. Advice is fine but you didn’t actually read my post or comments before you just doled out advice I have already tried. I have tried repeatedly putting her back to bed just like the countless other parents on here- for months- and it did not work (I’m not going to repeat that again). I was asking for advice for things I haven’t already tried. And yeah damn right solidarity goes along way too. Just nice to know I’m not the only one. I’m human.

I didn’t shoot anyone down. Reread how calm my replies were and take a deep breath.

My child is kind, calm and well-mannered, she just wants her mum at bed time which as I suggested may be down to the fact she was in NICU for 4 months. She has severe separation anxiety and I am not willing to let my child scream all night, yes even if that means I sleep, because I’m not selfish or cruel. As I said to one of the other posters you seem to be ganging up on me with, I’m not here for drama so I will not be responding to you anymore.

I think you need to calm down with your opinions of me as a total stranger you do not know. I don't "pop up on threads" doing anything. I use a public forum just as you do. I also have other usernames and you've not followed me around with a vendetta on those, so I think you've just taken the hump with me.

I hope you all get some sleep. I'm writing this from a position of having a child who sleeps 12-13 hours straight, knowing what it used to be like before. Perhaps you'll see my advice on another thread under another username and see it in a different light. I don't always post under this username and plenty of people have found my advice on different topics helpful.

You have zero chance of her sleeping through while she’s napping. You need to somehow keep her awake through the day. It won’t work immediately because she’s in a habit but you need to get her to the point that the sleep pressure/ tiredness is built up that she will be knackered at bedtime and then if she does wake she’ll be so tired she’ll go back to sleep easier. Dd is just turned 4 and she would happily nap in the day but if I let her she will either be awake until 11pm or she will go to sleep for a few hours then wake in the early hours and be awake until dawn.

Sorry she (presumably) ruined your post. Such a shame because there’s been so many lovely mums or dads on here with great tips and comments. I’m not phased by it though as I know she’s just a keyboard warrior bored at home probably with a very unhappy life to be on mumsnet 24/7 being tone deaf and patronising on lots of different threads. I barely even had time to reply to the comments on this post so don’t know how she does it!

Thanks for the support and kind words on my thread. So nice to know there are lots of mums out there with great advice but also kindness and in similar situations! My little girl has only woke up once an hour ago so far but went straight back to sleep once I went in stroked her hair for 30 secs and walked out. Hoping she sleeps through or at least only wakes up once more before morning!! 🤣 Hope your kids are knackered out and sleep well for you!! X

Erm, hang on. This thread has over 140 posts on it, and I've posted to you just twice, 3 times in total (once to your first post, once to your reply to me, and once to another poster). I think accusing me of ganging up on you is unreasonable and not born out by the facts. You have called me 'cruel', 'selfish', 'knowing nothing about babies or toddlers' and of being a bully. Your response is disproportionate and unfair, and certainly not calm. You are the one throwing insults around. Your first post was clear you wanted advice, I have kindly given it. That is all I have done. I am sorry you haven't appreciated my advice, but it was given without any agenda or malice.

I don't doubt your child is absolutely wonderful and quite rightly the light of your life. I'm not sure why you would think I wouldn't? Am I supposed to take by association that you don't think my children are? You have clearly taken my posts as some kind of judgement on your parenting, which is about you and your feelings, not my actual words. A child demanding their hair be stroked for an hour at bedtime is really not normal and you do not have to provide that level of parenting if you don't want to - that is all I am saying (because some parents understandably seem to find being told that helpful in addressing their guilt at putting their own needs higher up the list). I (mistakenly it would seem) thought from your first post that you had had enough of doing it and wanted it to stop. It's now clear from your subsequent posts that you don't actually want it to stop, but just wanted solidarity, and that is absolutely fine. I maybe would've provided such solidarity (I've recently done so on a post by another mum in despair over their little one). So maybe think about your language in future. I am not your enemy and nothing in my posts suggest as such

Posting in defence of @sexnotgenders here. OP, I get it, it’s really hard being bone achingly exhausted and your DD, bless her, is clearly struggling at night. And you’ve had a lot of solidarity support from others struggling. I’m sending plenty your way too because my 3 have been absolute nightmares at night at various points and I’ve felt close to a full on breakdown, being angry at everyone and everything. There’s a reason sleep deprivation is used as a torture method - the pain is real! But I think all that poster was doing was pointing out that it’s ok if you want it to stop. Maybe you’ve tried what she was suggesting, but I’m not sure that was overly clear in your posts. I’ve found that poster on other threads really helpful and kind, and also reading what’s been posted here I am not sure you’ve been entirely fair. I’m prepared to be told to mind my business, but I felt an urge to speak up. I really do hope you get some rest and your little one starts to feel less anxious at night. I’m not sure amongst all the responses if things like choosing a nightlight, bedding, room arrangement etc have been mentioned? When my middle child was struggling, I basically gave her free range to organise her bedroom as she wanted, choosing new bedding and a new night light, and moving her bed to the other wall. I found giving her some autonomy over her sleep space made her feel more comfortable. Sorry if that’s been mentioned, or if you’ve tried it already, but just another suggestion to add to the mix. And (also sorry), but I did put my foot down with my little one and rode out a lot of tears as by that point I was broken, so sexnotgenders has a point that it’s ok to reach that point and play hardball. As mums, we matter too. Anyway, hope you’re not too exhausted this morning! xx

But she’s not screaming because she’s scared, OP said she strokes her DDs hair for 5 mins until she drops off and then leaves her and that dd screams when she leaves. I wouldnt tell of a child that woke up screaming but this isn’t right. She’s screaming because she wants you to stay.

Sleep is really really important. For the child and the adult. It’s when you grow, learn, and heal. There are many studies proving the serious health consequences of not sleeping well. Endless years of poor quality sleep will have long term health consequences and also short term problems. What happens when a parent underperforms at work? What if you loose you job? Or you have to cut your hours or stop working altogether to cope with this situation.

I understand there have been changes since my dc were young. They are now teenagers. I sleep trained them. It wasn’t much of an effort so I do get that all kids are different and perhaps mine are just kids that sleep ok and that how it is. But the situations I’m reading on here would be untenable. Years and years of interrupted sleep cannot be a good thing for either the kids or parents.

Thanks! Yup always kicked off…!

We did sleep training for DT’s at five months - same time as we moved their cots into their individual bedrooms. I was going back to work which some nights away from home and didn’t want DH to have to deal with nights with one or both DT’s not sleeping through.