Nearly 3 years of daughter not sleeping through

[Peebleneeb]

Hi,

I’m at wits end with no clue how to improve my daughters sleep and desperately need help or advice.

For background my daughter was born in March 22 extremely premature at 24 weeks weighing just 1lb. We spent 4 months in 3 different NICUs across the UK getting her better and nearly lost her twice (as in were told she was dying). I’m telling you this as I’m not sure if this could be part of why she is a bad sleeper- or if it’s why maybe we created sleep crutches and completely avoided (and don’t like the idea of) sleep training of any kind. Because she’s so precious.

So to the sleep issue… My husband and I are absolutely zombies because my daughter is now nearly 3 (in a couple months) and still wakes up at least twice a night screaming for me. She has never been a good sleeper- has had us up anywhere between 1-10 times a night since she was born- now it’s mostly twice a night with a hellish bedtime. She has a nap midday-1.30pm ish sometimes 2pm each day but I’ve been trying to cap it (she is super grumpy when I cap it though so finding it hard). She goes to bed at 7.30pm/8pm and usually wakes for the final time anytime between 6-7am.

She takes anywhere between 20 minutes to an hour to get to bed and insists we stroke her hair or hold her hand. She has white noise machine (has always had this), a very dim night light on, is still in a cot bed with rails up as doesn’t and can’t climb out yet, has a duvet and pillow now but in the past has had sleep sacks. We have the exact same bed time routine and have for as long as I can remember- it’s milk, brush teeth, put pull ups on (she is potty trained during day now), read 1/2 books, put in bed and then I lie next to her until she’s asleep. I didn’t always lie next to her - when she was younger I could put her down stroke her head a bit and then walk out after 5 mins but she started screaming when I left so the only fix was to lie with her. It worked for awhile but now she wants us to stroke her hair too and screams and screams like she’s being murdered if we don’t, or if we leave. I am losing my fucking mind!!!

We are so kind and gentle with her but I hold firm boundaries in day to day life so I’m not a pushover- except for when she screams like that at bedtime and at night as I can’t bear it. I do most bedtimes and wake ups but daddy does a few as I work early shifts half the week (4am alarm). We have tried: turning off white noise, turning off night light, turning on brighter lamp, singing, reading to her while in bed, just walking out (lolllll nope), let her cry max 5 mins then go in (can’t cope any longer as she REALLY screams), just talking to her and asking her to go back to sleep if she wakes in the night, asking her if anything is frightening her and why she wakes up (she doesn’t know).

Is this unusual? What can I do? I can’t do this any more I’m going insane!

Thank you in advance ❤️

Thank you! Lots suggesting this! Solidarity my friend ❤️

Thank you - it really really helps to know this!!!

Hahaha I’ll try that too!!

Completely normal 😊

It sounds like an absolute dream and I may be brave enough to try it next year…! What I would do for a solid night sleep and silence (no doubt I’d end up missing her saying this hahaha)!!! Thank you for being so kind ❤️

Thank you this is really good to hear - and you are right that we have it twisted in expecting them to sleep alone in a dark room as toddlers!!

To fix the night waking and possibly help her settle by making her more tired at bedtime, I would say definitely drop the naps or at least make them much shorter, maybe 45 mins-1hr.My dd was 3 in oct and went through a phase of being really clingy at bedtime, in and out of bed shouting at her stairgate afew months back....I think she was just frustrated and bored as she wasn't ready to sleep.
She has stopped napping most of the time recently and her bedtimes are so much easier and earlier.She also sleeps abit later in the morning too, which means she has a longer block of sleep and is less in need of a nap.
It also may mean that even if you have to stay with her, she will fall asleep quicker and easier.
Have you tried audiobooks? At one point they were the only way we could get her to be up there without us.

Do it! I'll probably wake up a million times on autopilot as my body clock is that messed up now but at least I'll wake up to silence and not mummyyyyy!

Mine was just 3 when they started sleeping through! Up until then my little one was in sleeping bags in their cot and waking 2-4 times a night. We needed the cot for baby sibling so we took the dive straight into single bed one night, with bed guards. Little one was so excited! That was that. "Good night mummy you can go now" and sleeping through the night.
These days, if Daddy is home he rubs little one's back until they drift off to sleep, but if it's Mummy doing bedtime it's books in bed then good night and I leave them in bed (usually to get the youngest to sleep too).

Maybe a short sharp change could work for you too? Definitely start with dropping the nap. It'll be painful adjusting for a couple of weeks but ok after that. Hang in there mumma!

Sorry, OP, I'm also in the camp of it not being normal to be this sleep deprived. Clearly we all accept different levels of torture when parenting but I would associate this level of sleep deprivation and struggle with the early days. Not with a 3 year old.

Mine sleeps through because I would just keel over if this were happening to me. He's also 3. I couldn't cope so he's not got a choice. You can send them back to bed in a kind but firm manner without getting into all this hair stroking/singing palaver. You are not teaching her that "mummy won't come". She's 3. It's time to tell her that everyone needs sleep. It's time to be firmer about this.

PP has it right. No fucking pancakes for this nonsense!

and yes, no naps!

Drop the nap and bed time at 6.30 if you can. Sounds like you're in the cycle of not quite tired enough at bed time because of the nap, sleeping badly then needing to nap.

My child didn't sleep through the night for years. We tried everything but it was distressing for us all and exhausting.

Our eventual solution was to tell child they had to go to bed in their room but could come in our room and sleep near us if they did NOT wake us up. For us this meant everyone got much more sleep! Do you have room for a small bed or mattress in your room?

Some children just wake up though. I have one child who sleeps and one doesn’t. I can’t stop her waking up. And she’s older so no naps or anything.
Telling her stuff in the night has zero effect. It can be hard to imagine what it’s like until you are in the situation.
And you cope because you have to. You can’t just stay in bed.

@fashionqueen0123

Yes, my son had a period of waking up too. He was told to go back to bed. Gently, but firmly. At 3 this can be explained. OP can talk to her in the day.

I remember my son being upset and crying. I told him I'm here and I'm waiting for you to calm down so we can talk. He did, and we talked about cuddling his teddy and going back to sleep. We chatted about it again in the morning. A few nights of similar and prompting him and he sleeps through.

He knows to come to us if he's sick or upset from a nightmare and he occasionally does. He absolutely dies not think no one is there for him. But he wasn't given the option to carry on waking up every night to create a huge drama. I think posters are quick to say it's normal when it may also have become a habit with OP's child and is now behavioural. I simply cannot spend hours at night soothing a 3 year old back to sleep outwith illness or nightmares. I'd collapse.

My son was in his own room 11/12 weeks as we were disturbing each other. We all slept happily after that

Yep, I'm another one who thinks this isn't normal and to be honest, I am a bit shocked at the number of people torturing themselves over their 3 and 4 year olds. We are not talking about babies here, but children who should understand boundaries and who should have been taught good sleep habits by now. There's a lot of people here who seemed to have handed full control of nighttime to their child with the child dictating how they must fall asleep, who should be the one doing bedtimes etc, etc. Where are the boundaries?

OP, your child is old enough to understand that everyone in the household needs sleep, and that bedtime is for sleeping. Yes, little ones need comfort and reassurance when they wake in the night sometimes, but ultimately they also need to go to sleep. It is better for their health and ours. My 3.5 year old knows that bedtime is exactly that, time for her to go to bed - she is tucked in, then I leave. We had to teach her this. If she wakes upset in the night, we go to her, give a quick hug, then she goes back to sleep. Because I also need to go to sleep. It's not a crime to need the whole family to sleep. A 3 year old screaming because they want their hair stroked for an hour is not reasonable - the 3 year old is capable of understanding their behaviour and understanding what is and is not ok. I suggest that some rules around bedtime are established - what are you prepared to do, and what are you not? Explain those rules clearly, then implement them consistently.

My DC is a similar age and has found sleep a challenge. They were seriously unwell shortly after birth and had several months of being woken every couple of hours, then just didn't seem to link sleep cycles at all. Now, we've got to a point where they'll sleep maybe 3-4 hours, wake up and then settle for another 3 if we're lucky, but that's a recent development! No naps, and it's like DC's brain just doesn't want to rest until after 10pm...

My dd (May 21 baby) has only just started sleeping through the night - the past 2 months id say.

Going to nursery has been a game changer for us - she does 3 full days & 1 morning. (She dropped her nap from 18 months.)
Got her a double bed for her room too and she sleeps through lol

Maybe drop the nap & 6:30 bedtime - push it a bit more to 7:00. It sounds like she's not tired when going to sleep at 6:30.
My dd goes to bed at 7:30 and wakes up anywhere between 7:00-9:00 .... 9am on weekends obviously ha!

@sexnotgenders I'm sorry but I think you need to get off your high horse here and stop making people feel bad. You don't know the full story so don't judge so quickly.

Every single fucking time my daughter wakes up she sternly gets told to go back to sleep and gets led back to her room super nanny / super strict style. Guess what, she still wakes.

People like me are not suffering for fun and when comments like this pop up you don't realise the hurt you are causing.

@Yourethebeerthief the other night you literally made me delete my whole thread, you've got some nerve popping up on this one basically saying the same stuff.

People like you don't realise the hurt and upset you are causing others, you can make people cry with your tone / ideas so please just stop and think. The op just wants solidarity not what you are saying. Read the room.

Yes most of us can’t spend hours. Definitely not! That’s why most people probably do whatever is quickest to get the child back to sleep.
My eldest would have done what you say your son does. My youngest is just totally different and any sort of discussion just results in upset and waking everyone else up, screaming or crying and a full blown meltdown and you can put her back 20 times but nothing changes. With some kids you can try talking, cuddly toys, night lights and reward charts etc but nothing works at 3am.
Adults often wake at night too but being adults we are happy to go back to sleep. I often wake up have some water then go back to sleep. But if my child wakes up she wants to come and sleep next to us. Tbh it doesn’t actually wake me half the time!

You may think that until you have a child who doesn’t conform to that behaviour.

Infact my own parents were always mystified as to why my kids wake up so much. As children me and my sister were good sleepers. They probably thought the same as you.

Well guess what happens when kids have a sleepover. They all end up in bed together or my dad in the spare room as they realise what works for one child, clearly does not for another and they’d rather get some sleep 🤣

I’m at wits end with no clue how to improve my daughters sleep and desperately need help or advice.

This is the OP's opening line. I am offering advice.

I think you need to seek help elsewhere as Mumsnet is clearly upsetting you far too much. As for "some nerve", the words pot, kettle, and black come to mind.

This is a public forum. Feel free to continue following me around and wagging your finger, and I'll continue to post where I please.

I really felt for you on that thread. Sorry you felt you had to delete it.