My Mum sold a car that isn’t legally hers?

[Lilly1102]

Last year my Mum gave me my late grandmas car (she legally transferred ownership to myself). She inherited it but never drove it as she has her own car and it was just sitting on their driveway doing nothing. I am an only ‘child’ and my grandma really did adore me and would be so pleased I learnt to drive in her car.

i’m 25 so was a late learner. I insured the car, taxed it etc. When I passed my test my partner bought me a more ‘stylish’ car for Xmas. He pays for the tax and insurance on that one so I decided to continue paying for the car I learnt to drive on for a year just to get some no claims and also my younger cousin learnt to drive in it with my uncle so I thought I may as well insure it.

my cousin is now done with the car , my Mum has decided she wants to sell it. I asked her very politely if there was any possibility I could get a very small percentage of the car sale (ie £300) just because I’ve paid £1400 for the car over the year even though I never drove it.

I asked out of principle because legally it is actually in my name etc, it wasn’t about the money, i just asked to see if my parents actually ever considered my opinion or asking me.

my mum has never put any money into that car as my grandma bought it and my mum never drove it even when it was her name (I think she SORNed it).

It took so much courage to ask her as my parents are VERY ‘funny’ with money and I was right to be scared because she phoned me back SCREAMING down the phone telling me she needs the money for the car sale.

she screamed and cried and said ‘I don’t live in the world she’s living in’ (she assumes because I work in finance that I am some rich bitch) which is SO far from the truth.

I’d like to emphasise that my parents live in a 5 bed detached house with a large garden in the Home Counties with NO mortgage. My father is retired and although my mum doesn’t work (she’s also close to retirement age) they are hardly hard done by. Me and my partner on the other hand (although we are also not hard done by) we don’t own a house and we more a less live pay cheque to pay cheque most months.

her reaction really stunned me. It stuns me because they’re so critical of my boyfriend’s father who recently inherited a relatively large sum of ££ from a house sale. My parents think he is selfish for not giving my partner any money for a house deposit from it and they always tell me that if they had spare money they would give it to me.

me and my boyfriends view is that it’s his fathers money - he can spend it on what he likes but my parents have such a double standard because whenever I ask for any help (not on a large scale at all) they quick up a huge fuss.

was I wrong for asking? Like I say, I don’t want the money but I’m more hurt at my mums reaction given her beliefs about other people’s attitudes towards their money! They’re so judgemental about everyone else and as soon as I ask (which I never do because even growing up I was met with reactions like this) it turns out to be a huge drama.

I agree with you OP. Your mum gave you the car because she didn't want it and I suppose to help you out. The car should have been yours to sell now you didn't need it. I am a mum of grown up children and would never have taken the car back to sell. I would have said to you to sell the car if you're not using it. As for the big tantrum, nothing you can do about that if it's the way she's always been. Dreadful carry on for a mother.

Doesn't sound as if it's your car. Legally speaking. I don't think your mum is unreasonable, she has had nothing from the car.

If you are the main driver on the insurance but haven't been driving it, it's actually only been driven by your cousin who is a named driver then you could be in trouble for "fronting", a kind of insurance fraud to reduce premiums. So best stop this arrangement immediately.

Some people seem to sit around like the tricoteuses in the French revolution just waiting to pounce.

I don't think you're "grabby" at all @Lilly1102. I have DDs your age and if I gave them a car, I wouldn't be taking it back to sell it for myself, even if you no longer used it. When you give an item to someone, that makes it theirs.

Your mother sounds batshit. Way OTT reaction. As PP have said, put a little distance between you and never talk about money!

Surely insuring a car as if you're driving it... and then actually never driving it and being on the insurance for another car (presumably not as the main driver) means you were attempting insurance fraud?

Anyway, that aside - she gave you the car. Whilst she may not have signed it over properly, she gave you the car and the impression the car was yours to do as you wished with.

Then when it suited her to do so, she sold it as if it were still hers.

This is shitty behaviour.

Do not accept gifts from her again, and forget asking for or expecting any money from them again.

She is a hypocrit, and pretty mean. Engineer your interactions/relationship with her in such a way that this never negatively affects you again.

She gave you the car as a gift, you've been paying the upkeep on it, it's not hers to sell.

Maybe a box of chocolates and a “sorry mum” are in order.

I don't understand posters who say it's not OPs because she didn't pay for it and no money exchanged hands. The whole point of a gift (especially one which you have to invest your own money in to upkeep) is that you don't pay for it. 🤦

She's sounds a bit unhinged. All she needed to say was no.

I can see both sides, I think ultimately, you are in the wrong here, however I can totally see why. You genuinely thought the car was a gift to you to do as you wished with, and I think I might have assumed that too, I didn't realise about log books or whatever, and I think your mum should have made this more clear. You thinking it was yours forever is why you continued to pay the tax and insurance.

But it sounds like she saw it as more of a loan. I expect if you hadn't have been gifted another car, she would have been happy for you to have it indefinitely, or sell it yourself to go towards a new one. But having another car is what has wound her up I think. Maybe she thought you should have offered to give it to your cousin and was embarrassed you didn't (if the cousin is also related to your grandma). Maybe she felt you were ungrateful to get another car and then not ask what should be done with the Micra. I think if you'd asked, she probably would have said you can keep it.

I also think older generations can be weird with money. My MIL has a lovely big house with no mortgage in a middle class area, we have a tiny flat with no drive and poor schools, not enough bedrooms in a very deprived area. When I said in conversation we hope to sell and get a bigger house when our next mortgage deal ends, she asked why on earth we would want to do that, and our flat is fine. I thought this was odd, but she'd also made comments that our generation expect too much, and in her time nobody went abroad or had weekends away or paid for activities for their children etc, and I think that her opinion is that our generation want too much (even though they were typically one income families). If your mum thinks that way too, she might be wound up with you wasting money on the spare car, if you've ever said that you wish you could afford to buy a house.

You can insure a car with a different company for learning. I did this with my husband's car when I was learning. His insurance is with one company in his name, and my learner insurance was with a different one and in my name.

What I was thinking

@Shade17 ALL traders have used it as ownership in my experience.

You are unreasonable; for all the inverted commas, if nothing else.

So what does the motor trade require as proof of ownership? If I wanted to sell my car today what else should I take with me along with the V5? Would they want a copy of a bank transfer from when I bought it? Or what is the definitive proof of car ownership?

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yep - this

What was the £1400 you paid towards the car? Was that to get it fixed or new tyres or just the insurance you paid on it to benefit yourself by getting the no claims bonus? If it’s the latter than I would say expecting some money from the sale is bonkers.

I've noticed that phenomenon too!

Why is that relevant? Unlike your username, which might be 😂

No one touches the zafira

I thought it was relevant because if OP hadn't fruitlessly piled money into a car she hasn't paid for and didn't even use she might be less bothered by her mum selling it 🤷‍♀️

I disagree with the OP's position and conduct but agree with her use of inverted commas!

They don’t. It’s all heavily reliant on trust when you think about it. The combination of the chassis number matching the V5C and reg number proves it’s not a ringer (although actually quite easy to fake) and the HPI check is generally all they need and many don’t even go that far. Quite often the V5C of the trade-in isn’t even present at the time of exchange if the customer has just retained a plate and the new one hasn’t arrived yet.

And yes, the definitive proof that you own it is details of the bank transfer, receipt etc.

The general public are surprisingly stupid, I’ve sold quite a few cars privately from my house which haven’t been registered to me or my address, people not even wanting to start the car let alone test drive it, just turn up with the cash and off they go.

I have some sympathy. who ever legally owned the car.

If someone gives me a car I don't assume they'll sell it because I have 'done' with it. It would be my car. A gift is a legal transfer, and this one included OP having the log book in her name as keeper, and she then insured it, as it was her car.
Her mum has no right to sell the car. And if OP's name is still on the log book she can stop her doing so, by refusing to transfer the car to a new owner.
My family certainly doesn't work like that. Something is either a gift (i.e. permanent legal transfer) or loan (it gets given back). I hate people who think they can have a gift back when they want it - I had an aunt like that and it made me (and everyone else) angry with her; and one could never, ever trust what she said.

But her mum has no right to sell the car; she gave it to the OP. That's a transfer of ownership, with legal force.