My Mum sold a car that isn’t legally hers?

[Lilly1102]

Last year my Mum gave me my late grandmas car (she legally transferred ownership to myself). She inherited it but never drove it as she has her own car and it was just sitting on their driveway doing nothing. I am an only ‘child’ and my grandma really did adore me and would be so pleased I learnt to drive in her car.

i’m 25 so was a late learner. I insured the car, taxed it etc. When I passed my test my partner bought me a more ‘stylish’ car for Xmas. He pays for the tax and insurance on that one so I decided to continue paying for the car I learnt to drive on for a year just to get some no claims and also my younger cousin learnt to drive in it with my uncle so I thought I may as well insure it.

my cousin is now done with the car , my Mum has decided she wants to sell it. I asked her very politely if there was any possibility I could get a very small percentage of the car sale (ie £300) just because I’ve paid £1400 for the car over the year even though I never drove it.

I asked out of principle because legally it is actually in my name etc, it wasn’t about the money, i just asked to see if my parents actually ever considered my opinion or asking me.

my mum has never put any money into that car as my grandma bought it and my mum never drove it even when it was her name (I think she SORNed it).

It took so much courage to ask her as my parents are VERY ‘funny’ with money and I was right to be scared because she phoned me back SCREAMING down the phone telling me she needs the money for the car sale.

she screamed and cried and said ‘I don’t live in the world she’s living in’ (she assumes because I work in finance that I am some rich bitch) which is SO far from the truth.

I’d like to emphasise that my parents live in a 5 bed detached house with a large garden in the Home Counties with NO mortgage. My father is retired and although my mum doesn’t work (she’s also close to retirement age) they are hardly hard done by. Me and my partner on the other hand (although we are also not hard done by) we don’t own a house and we more a less live pay cheque to pay cheque most months.

her reaction really stunned me. It stuns me because they’re so critical of my boyfriend’s father who recently inherited a relatively large sum of ££ from a house sale. My parents think he is selfish for not giving my partner any money for a house deposit from it and they always tell me that if they had spare money they would give it to me.

me and my boyfriends view is that it’s his fathers money - he can spend it on what he likes but my parents have such a double standard because whenever I ask for any help (not on a large scale at all) they quick up a huge fuss.

was I wrong for asking? Like I say, I don’t want the money but I’m more hurt at my mums reaction given her beliefs about other people’s attitudes towards their money! They’re so judgemental about everyone else and as soon as I ask (which I never do because even growing up I was met with reactions like this) it turns out to be a huge drama.

Your mums reaction was very OTT.
I'm confused by people saying the registered keeper isn't the same as the legal owner.
What document/paperwork indicates the legal owner of the car?
I must admit I thought registered keeper was the owner.
Im guessing the exception to this would be company cars but there would be paper work or a contract, to indicate this.
OP says her mum gave her the car, she didn't say I'll l have it back once you've finished with it. I can see why OP thought it was hers.
The compromise would be to split the money from the sale.
I think your uncle should have paid for the tax and insurance for his families use, is your mum upset for some reason because the cousin is using it?
I don't think you were unreasonable to assume the car was yours as your mum have it to you and at no point said it was a loan. Assume when you insured it you said you were the owner of the car?

@Dutchhouse14 it explains it here
ask the police

My husband says whoever insures the car is legally owner as if stolen they will be in receipt of insurance money, a registered keeper is one responsible for it on the road getting tickets etc but doesn't necessarily own it, if your mum gifted it it to you then It's yours but if she only lent it to you then it's hers but as you were insuring it as well then really you should be regarded as owning it. You could got to CAB for legsl advice But I think with your Mum you're just going to have to let it go. I'm sorry that being her only child she behaves that way to you. I always find the more money people have the more they want. 🙄

@Waffleswithhothoney Just the v5 is needed. Which some weird posters keep arguing against.

what does irk me is that I’ve heard my mum complain multiple times about people who give stuff to people and then ask for them back.

Well @Lilly1102 next time she mentions your FIL not helping your partner out or other people not helping their kids out, I think I’d have to say ‘please mum… you have such double standards!’…. Although maybe not if she’s going to start screaming at you! Frankly she sounds unhinged!
Don’t apologise anymore… she gave you the car as a gift.. she’s in the wrong… at the very least she should’ve had a conversation with you asking if you minded her selling the car.. at the very least I’d expect her to give you half the sales… I mean let’s face it you could’ve sold it a year ago and probably would’ve offered her half despite it being gifted to you!
The issue is, even if you have texts/emails etc proving the car is yours (gifted to you) what could you in reality do?… it’s not as if you’d take your mum to court over it?… so with that in mind I would chalk this down to a life lesson, and anything gifted to you in future by her, sell it the second you no longer need it… don’t lend it out..
Also why didn’t you just transfer the insurance over to the new car? You’d still have got your no claims after a year, but insuring 2 cars at the same time doesn’t give you double the no claims… it’s still only a year! So you’d have been better to put the new car on your policy and remove the micra. But as I said it’s a learning curve & you now just need to let it go!… I would totally shut down all money talk with your parents though… Your partners parents inheritance is none of your mums business and I wouldn’t entertain any discussion around it going forward.

Let it go. Life's too short.

This isn't really about the car (which is your mum's - you are the registered keeper, not necessarily the owner) I think you need to have a wider discussion with her than just about the car.

But she is the owner.

How are so many people so confused about the concept of a gift? If I give you a book, it's your book, it's not my book. If I give you a car, it's your car.
OP says her mother gave her the car. I see no reason to doubt her, she's the one who would know. And yet an entire thread of people saying it's the mothers car.
Wtf?

If you are given something, then it is not a gift if you then pay for it. She was given the car and the log book was transferred into her name. So she is the owner and registered keeper too. There was no conversation of it being leant to the OP, so therefore her mother had no right to sell it, in my opinion.

No ma'am. You were correct in the first place. It was "gifted" to you by your mother and the log book transferred into your name. You are therefore the owner and registered keeper.

It’s because legally she’s the only one with any proof that it’s hers. If I give you a book and then a week later say “that’s my book, I only leant it you, here’s the receipt to show I paid for it” then you’d be hard pressed to prove otherwise. If I’d also sent you a text or email saying “I’ve got X book here that you can have” then it would be pretty clear that it was a gift.

Well according to We Buy Any Car... quote...the legal owner of a car in the UK is whoever has registered the car so if its registered in your name, its your car as you will have to sign the paperwork to sell it.

You have absolutely no idea what OP has to show it's hers, on top of the fact that she's the registered keeper, and has paid the insurance and tax on it. All signs she owns it.

Exactly, I don’t know. But I’m guessing that if she had a trail of communication from her mum she’d probably have mentioned it.

Can’t find that on their website but it’s total tosh anyway.

@Lilly1102 "It stuns me because they’re so critical of my boyfriend’s father who recently inherited a relatively large sum of ££ from a house sale. My parents think he is selfish for not giving my partner any money for a house deposit from it and they always tell me that if they had spare money they would give it to me".

From what I understand from your version of events is that your DM gave you a car. She then took it back and sold it. I think that is out of order. I agree with you that your partners' parents money is theirs to do as they wish.

Your DM should not have sold your property and now she has the money that should have been yours. So she has taken from you but yet says that if she had spare money, she would give it to you. That is not your DMs spare money. It is yours.

I think she has been extremely unreasonable

I haven't had time to read every response, but I get the gist. If I'd 'given' my daughter her nans car, and changed the V5 etc, I wouldn’t expect or even think about her giving it me back to sell. She's let you have it and changed the documents. You have paid for and maintained it since, so IMO it's yours. Otherwise I think it's odd, and your mum is massively overreacting. She should have said something like "Please use your grandma's car for however long, but I'd like it back at some point". Huge miscommunication. Huge overreaction.

"It's not about the money" but goes on to talk about the issues with money. It is your mum's car. Your choice to put the money into it.

Your annoyance with your mum because you believe she thinks your some kind of "rich bitch" YET you point out your own mum's richness?- strange childish behavior...

Sounds like your bitter about her selling the car.. Sit with the annoyance tell your mum your annoyed... Clear the air... Move on...

I’ve not read the whole thread, but I’m with you OP. If I handed over a car to one of my daughters to the point where I’d made them the registered keeper I would not expect to profit from the sale, I would view it as their’s (and I know there is a legal difference between registered keeper and owner). Your mum’s reaction was way OTT, especially as the car isn’t worth all that much.

Thing is though, I suspect what the mum meant was "would you like to use the car, as you don't have one, to learn to drive?"

What the OP heard was "have this car as a gift".

They won't agree because what one meant to say and the other heard are different. We can't tell what was said and whether it was reasonable for either to hold that view.

If the mum was writing an aibu she'd be saying "I said I'd lend the car to my dd to pass her driving test. As she's now got a car, I thought I'd sell it, and she's just told me she expects half the money from the sale. If I'd known she was going to expect that, I'd never have lent it in the first place."
There would be a lot of people saying the DD was a cf and grasping.

@NavyTurtle Absolutely, I've dealt with car sales for decades and v5 always used as ownership.

So, you paid £1400 insurance on a Micra, the Lexus must be at least double that.
You cry poverty so your mum gives you a car. You dump it at your cousins pay £1400 to keep it insured, spend £2700 (of as you say joint money) on a Lexus, at least £2500 to insure it (so nearly £7k all together) and when your mum sells the Micra, cry poverty again. Sorry op but I imagine that's how your mum sees it.

Well, WBAC are very clearly incorrect in their statement. You’d also have to be properly stupid to rely on document which states “this is not proof of ownership” as proof of ownership.

Ok, so if the V5 doesn't prove ownership, and insuring and taxi g doesn't prove ownership, WHAT is it exactly that proves ownership?
A lot of people here adamant what it isn't, they must know what is.....