My Mum sold a car that isn’t legally hers?

[Lilly1102]

Last year my Mum gave me my late grandmas car (she legally transferred ownership to myself). She inherited it but never drove it as she has her own car and it was just sitting on their driveway doing nothing. I am an only ‘child’ and my grandma really did adore me and would be so pleased I learnt to drive in her car.

i’m 25 so was a late learner. I insured the car, taxed it etc. When I passed my test my partner bought me a more ‘stylish’ car for Xmas. He pays for the tax and insurance on that one so I decided to continue paying for the car I learnt to drive on for a year just to get some no claims and also my younger cousin learnt to drive in it with my uncle so I thought I may as well insure it.

my cousin is now done with the car , my Mum has decided she wants to sell it. I asked her very politely if there was any possibility I could get a very small percentage of the car sale (ie £300) just because I’ve paid £1400 for the car over the year even though I never drove it.

I asked out of principle because legally it is actually in my name etc, it wasn’t about the money, i just asked to see if my parents actually ever considered my opinion or asking me.

my mum has never put any money into that car as my grandma bought it and my mum never drove it even when it was her name (I think she SORNed it).

It took so much courage to ask her as my parents are VERY ‘funny’ with money and I was right to be scared because she phoned me back SCREAMING down the phone telling me she needs the money for the car sale.

she screamed and cried and said ‘I don’t live in the world she’s living in’ (she assumes because I work in finance that I am some rich bitch) which is SO far from the truth.

I’d like to emphasise that my parents live in a 5 bed detached house with a large garden in the Home Counties with NO mortgage. My father is retired and although my mum doesn’t work (she’s also close to retirement age) they are hardly hard done by. Me and my partner on the other hand (although we are also not hard done by) we don’t own a house and we more a less live pay cheque to pay cheque most months.

her reaction really stunned me. It stuns me because they’re so critical of my boyfriend’s father who recently inherited a relatively large sum of ££ from a house sale. My parents think he is selfish for not giving my partner any money for a house deposit from it and they always tell me that if they had spare money they would give it to me.

me and my boyfriends view is that it’s his fathers money - he can spend it on what he likes but my parents have such a double standard because whenever I ask for any help (not on a large scale at all) they quick up a huge fuss.

was I wrong for asking? Like I say, I don’t want the money but I’m more hurt at my mums reaction given her beliefs about other people’s attitudes towards their money! They’re so judgemental about everyone else and as soon as I ask (which I never do because even growing up I was met with reactions like this) it turns out to be a huge drama.

I would have thought that being the registered keeper went a long way to some sort of proof. I recognise it is different to the owner but it would be one person's word over another, especially in this situation. I would think being responsible for the general running of the car and any fines etc, would be a good case to state you owned it because were gifted it, and hence why you became the registered keeper. You would more likely not get a written contract but a verbal one in this case.

Also, just to add. A person would not normally become a registered keeper if they are just borrowing a car. I think that would be something to consider too, where ownership is trying to be established.

Usually the bill of sale (receipt), however, in this case it is the Will.

@Shade17 So all dealerships, car auctions, webuyanycar etc are all stupid then.... okay. 😂

The car may not have been included in the will, if there was one. Forgive me if I missed that post by the OP.

It could be that the OPs DM may just have inherited it as part of her mothers' belongings or possessions. There still may not be any sale (receipt), as such. However, it could be proved that it was inherited without a receipt.

I just dont think that a gift from a family member, especially a mother/daughter relationship, would require a receipt for proof of ownership as selling it was not considered at the time it was gifted.

Their word/verbal contract would normally be good enough, and the fact that it was transferred into the daughter's name as the registered keeper goes toward some proof of the mother and daughter acting on the giving and receiving of the gift from what I have read and understood from the OPs posts. There was no discussion of borrowing or lending. The word "Give" was used by the DM.

Forgive me but how do you know the word 'give' was used by the DM?

OP says so. And says car was legally transferred

Clearly. Whoever wrote that on the WBAC website doesn’t have the faintest idea what they’re talking about. If they can’t understand that a piece of paper which says “this is not proof of ownership” is not proof of ownership they must be as thick as pig shit.

I’ll quote the DVLA again, which is the definitive source:

“The DVLA does not record those with legal entitlement to a vehicle but records the name and address of the person keeping the vehicle (‘registered keeper’), in accordance with legislation.”

@Shade17 Yes we know what it says. But it's not like that in real life processes which you can't seem to accept. You seem very rigid in your thinking.

I thought we were all strictly going off what the OP is stating, who maintained that her mother "gave" her the car and the word lend or borrowed was not used.

So, my comments are based off that, and not whether I believe her or not. If that was the case, nobody has the right to comment if they do not know these people or the circumstances personally.

Every other thing surrounding it, or raised, is just guess work if it is not stated by the OP.

You have a lot of suspicions and assumptions.

Unfortunately we do not have the other side of the story, but I thought we were here to remark and comment off of what the OP states, treating it as though it is factual, unless we have real reason to doubt it. However, even if we dont believe it, to make up an entire different story and make out it's a fact is absolutely ludicrous.

The OP says her DM "gave" her a car. She says the words lend, or borrow were not used in any conversation about it. She did not say she decided to "dump" the car at her cousins house, but that she allowed her cousin to use it to learn to drive. You say different, proceeding to tell us what the actual conversation was between the OP and her DM and what was stated, heard and implied, which is a far cry from what the OP has said.

My God. Please 🤐

But in anything like this you have to consider you're getting a biased view and you can't assume the mum gave the car, let alone said the word.

I know with my DC if I said "wait and I'll consider it"
Dd1 decided it wouldn't happen and never mentioned it again
Dd2 said "hurrah I'll go and get ready to do it"
Ds came back after a reasonable length of time and asked I'd decided.
This was telling all three at the same time, so they'd all heard the same words, just their brains registered it differently.

So how would you prove you owned your car?

You have to take the OPs word for it, otherwise what's the point in any post here?
Do someone opens with, so I was invited to this wedding....are you going to reply "how do we know you were invited, maybe they didn't actually mean invited, maybe they meant something different entirely, we can trust your interpretation of events...."?

Can't

I agree that there is another side to the story. Perhaps the OPs DM will say she only leant the car to her DD. She may even say that she did give the car to her but believes that she was justified in selling it because her DDs partner bought her another car. She may have felt that her DD did not want, or need it any longer and decided it would be OK to sell it. There are just endless guesses, or scenarios here that it could possibly be, and so we can only go by the information that the OP has presented to us, surely.

Exactly! Surely we comment and advise on what we have been told.

If I give anything to anyone.....I do not expect it back. If I want it back I will lend it or say you can use it for a while. It's not rocket science, if they're funny with money then OTT reaction says that you were in the right but it's a good way to shut you down.
I'd have trouble accepting gifts though in the future without being tempted to ask if they'll want it back...same with your OHs inheritance "we'd give you a share"/"like you did with the car".
These are not serious suggestions but would be my temptation.

Can't even begin with your grammar.
From one 'only' child to another.
Your post was so long I lost the point.

This. If someone gave me something of high value and I no longer needed it, I would ask them out of courtesy if they wanted it back before selling it.

"my parents are VERY ‘funny’ with money"

It seems to me that you are the one who is being funny with money, not your mother. A lot of people seem to struggle with the concept of ownership vs registered keeper of a vehicle in the UK so let's spell it out one more time.

The V5 - Registered Keeper is usually necessary to insure and tax a vehicle in your name. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with ownership of the vehicle. If you read it properly it even says at the top in big letters, "This document is NOT proof of ownership."

The only possible thing that you could have that proves ownership is a receipt signed by your mother stating "Received with thanks for sale of vehicle registration no. XXXX XXX the sum of £xxx.xx."

I had a similar situation with my 20 year old. He got a new car after he passed his test and when I cam to transfer the old one to his younger brother he tried to tell me that it was his car and he could sell it. The car was given to me by a friend for the use of the family. If anything he wants it back when we are finished with it. This lead to serious arguments with said son ending with me having to explain the above concerning ownership of a vehicle. He still wouldn't accept it, though so I told him he could have the car and best put his suitcase in the back seeing as he could "xxxx off out of my house and live somewhere else!" He changed his tune then.

Like my son you should be grateful that you had "free" use of a car while you were learning and wind your neck in....

She said in closed bracelets her mother had legally transferred ownership of the car to her i am taking that to mean that she now owns the car not her mother

That’s what the bone of contention is though. The V5 doesn’t prove ownership - just who the registered keeper is. So her mum would still be the owner, as the only existing proof of ownership is the will from which she inherited the car. Unless her mum has gone on DVLA website and filled in the forms to legally transfer ownership to OP then she still owns the car and OP is just the registered keeper.

But the V5 isn’t proof of ownership. It actually says that on the form.

Very odd of you to assume she hasn't done that.