Is there a prejudice towards quiet children?

[Orangebadger]

Just that really, I am not sure how else to word it other than using the term prejudice.

I am not quiet but my DD is quiet. She's not overly confident, but is actually very resilient and just quietly gets on with things. She doesn't like being centre of attention, she likes to slip under the radar. Me and her dad are the same in that final regard.

I am getting fed up of responses/ opinions about her, often from parents of very extrovert children.
She has most recently been referred to as timid, which is not a description I agree with. Surely quiet does not equal timid.

From my perception I don't see quiet as a weakness, if anything, the opposite. My strongest friends are very quiet. But is this just me or is this negative attitude to quiet people/ children a real thing? It's really beginning to bug me!

What an awful comment, my child has selective mutism and cannot speak in some situations, to call him an "unresponsive lump" is just plain rude and totally unacceptable. That has to be one of the meanest comments I've heard and we have had a few!

It’s an old proverb- two actually , which I put together. Just very old observations of human behaviour- and as all such sayings, sometimes applicable and sometimes not.

I always had my school reports focus on it like it was a negative and even now at work get tools to be more front and centre.

I think parents forget that other adults can only judge the child as they present to them. There are many different types of quiet. If a child doesn't speak and just stands there ignoring everyone then they are probably going to come across as unfriendly or rude. Another child may be quiet but has good social skills in other ways and is cooperative. They are two very different scenarios. I work with young kids and I may have concerns about child 1 but not child 2. The first child described may be desperate to join in but not know how and needs support. Or they may simply not like anyone and want to play by themselves and to their own agenda. We have to assume they want help and guidance to do right by them. It is very frustrating when you warmly engage with a child every single day and they just glare at you and turn away and don't answer any direct questions. After some time it's natural to want to just ignore them, obviously it's our job not to do this.

I have a friend whose kid I barely bother saying hi to anymore as I have been looking at his hostile glare for years now. His Mum says he is just a bit shy and has a great personality at home but i see no evidence of this. As he passed from childhood to teenager he has gone from appearing shy to downright rude. It's all very well saying he is just quiet but he has done himself no favours in life and people respond to what they see. I imagine he rarely gets smiled at anymore and few people like having him around.

@MotherofAllMatriarchs I appreciate what you're saying, but perhaps it would be possible to express it differently? It honestly does get incredibly frustrating when it's a consistent theme. Some children don't want to speak in class, or are too anxious to, and being told that it would make the class more interesting for the teacher (or their classmates) is irrelevant really. I have always been a listener and writer by nature and never contributed to class discussions, either at school or university. Thankfully Oxbridge doesn't care if you're quiet, and outcome is based purely on exams, so a first class degree was still possible! I have found my voice at work to the required level and I believe that most quieter children will learn to speak when needed, especially if they're not constantly made to feel that there's something wrong with them for being quiet. Not talking so much allows more time for thinking!

This is a really good point. My DD is more the former, quiet with good social skills. People do not think her rude. However when she is in the company of an adult she absolutely senses negative judgment on their behalf ( and I know that she is spot on as they will have shared with me their views on her being quiet!) I hasten to add I do not share this with my DD. The only way I can describe it is she becomes very awkward. But it's her intuition and been able to read people that she just knows when they think negatively of her. Tbh I leave it as feel really like it's their problem but I guess it becomes a vicious circle.

I have often been described as quiet during and since school and it's really annoying after a while when people feel they can comment. I had a right complex when I was younger but now I am comfortable in my own skin and I've learnt to relate to people a lot more, have lots of lovely friends and people tend to like me (I think!) I think being a good listener is far more appreciated as you get older. My daughter is the same and I take pains to tell her it's absolutely fine. Ironically it's stood me in good stead at work, good managers like quiet people who just get on with things so I've risen through the ranks quickly. I'm now a fairly senior manager with a senior technical role and although I'm not an extrovert I think I'm a decent manager.

@greenbirds I teach English and oracy is very ‘on trend’ right now so I do feel compelled to make sure everyone speaks. Voice 21 have been a hugely influential organisation in my subject area and there’s published research linking oracy to improved life chances in many areas. The Labour government also centred oracy in their education manifesto produced by David Blunkett.

I know oracy is becoming more important than it was at university level than in my day due to generative AI/plagiarism concerns and it will increasingly contribute to summative assessments. Plus it’s widely thought that AI will automate so many jobs that must emphasise/cultivate more human skills and much of this will involve speaking. I could actually write far much more on the subject but am typing one handed with my baby lying across me. Perhaps many other teachers feel as strongly as I do which is why we keep banging on. It must get tedious!

So on a professional level, I really do feel this is key but on a personal level I’d bloody hate it too!!

100% this!

Yes I'm afraid so, DD has always been very quiet, she has a very small circle of friends and as usual got overlooked for everything that went on in school, it was always the loud (over) confident ones got picked for things like school prefect, school council, eco warriors, school plays etc which erroded DDs confidence further, why is being quiet seen as a personality flaw that needs to be corrected?

That's lovely for you @TheaBrandt , but quite ableist.

Sometimes being quiet is a bit like being left handed. You might be able to strong arm them into masking the crap out of things (literally what used to happen to left handed children in the 70s and 80s).

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Sitting there like a lump is a really horrid thing to say - it lumps all quiet people into a big bucket. Some of us are not able to just buck up and make your life easier and there are MANY reasons for this.

Oh fgs ableist 🙄. My fil does it so annoying. Leaves it to everyone else to make the social effort and just sits there. Wearing having to be the one making the social effort I used to always be the one keeping the conversation going at tedious work events. Usually women get stuck doing this - Emma Barnett did a good piece on this on woman’s hour.

Well it is a bit ableist.

Mental health conditions ?
Neurodiversity ?

I am autistic and find social / small talk situations particularly hard.

But you probably see those as made up conditions - so no real point in 👉 👉 👉 that out🤔

Oh yes me too. Isn’t it annoying? Usually said in a loud voice so everyone looks… 👀

Wearing having to be the one making the social effort I used to always be the one keeping the conversation going

I don't understand this need to 'keep the conversation going'.

Are you that afraid of silence?

Some of the best work meetings/social gatherings I've been to are where there isn't that person jabbering away just for the sake of it.

People actually get chance to think, and some of the quieter ones usually make very valuable contributions when they can get a word in edgeways.

I don’t think you should confuse quiet people with people who lack social/conversation skills. It’s not the same thing. If I don’t feel like talking, I have learned the art of asking questions. Taking an interest in people more deeply and listening to others is an introvert super power.

I think people just misread quiet people a lot, my quietest sibling is the one none of us would cross. She’s not menacing, she’s polite and funny etc just….don’t cross her.

My DH is an introvert but also extremely assertive, people seem to struggle to believe that if you aren’t chatty and loud that you can also be confident.

A lot of people think quietness is a weakness and that quiet people can be easily manipulated and pushed around . I can assure you we cannot . I have also been told to liven myself up more . No I won't . I'm not going to be something I'm not . I'm happy to let more outgoing people take centre stage .

But while I agree about the poor social skills thing, quietness is nothing to do with introversion. An introvert is someone who is depleted rather than energised by socialising, and needs solo time to 'get themselves back'. I am an introvert. I am a sociable, confident person whose friendships are very important to me, but I need more solitary time than an extrovert to 'recuperat'e. The fact that I am an introvert would not be obvious to anyone watching me in a social situation (unless I was already exhausted from prior socialising with no downtime.)

Absolutely, you could be a 'quiet' introvert, who says very little and is reserved or unforthcoming in social situations. You could also be a talkative, animated introvert who owns the room in any social situation (but who might then need to see no one for a week.)

Introverts aren't any better at listening than extroverts, any more than being more likely to be loud or quiet in social situations.

I'm finding this thread quite fascinating. I am not quiet and to be honest I feel like I have been misjudged my whole life too, so its interesting to see a different perspective. People assume chatty outgoing people have confidence in other areas, which makes no sense when you think about it. A chatty person is probably more likely to be a people pleaser because they see being liked and interacting as their strength. I can small talk all day, I may know the people who work on the till in Tesco, or make a point of getting to know every single person in a department, but I would absolutely die having to give a presentation, or worse still stand up to a friend or family member. Confrontation and being assertive is something I have really struggled with all my life. Its completely different from being outgoing or talkative.

My life is pretty boring these days but when I was younger and moved around a bit more in terms of work and socially, I felt I was often taken advantage of, very often by quieter people who played the shy card. For example I got landed with difficult clients at work because 'you'll find it easy, you'll talk to anymore'. I always always got seated at the shit table at weddings or the bad corner at a restaurant. I was paranoid about this for years until a friend actually said it, Sorry for landing you beside (the annoying person) but I know you could handle it, anyone else would have come complaining to me or gone home early. I have been pushed into uncomfortable situations - you talk to the manager / landlord / asshole at the next table, I'm too shy!! These situations cause me enormous anxiety but if I try to explain this to people, they tend to laugh it off. 'you? anxious! you've got to be kidding me'. Always dismissing me.

Now that I analyse things and reading the other posts, I think I did benefit in childhood from my personality. People always gravitated to me, bullies avoided me, teachers picked me for things, parents always thought I was charming and I made friends easily. My quieter sister hit many more obstacles than i did. So on balance yes, i think you are right OP that the world is is a bit prejudiced against quiet children but the lack of understanding can work both ways, and I don't think either type turns out more or less confident in the end as there are many other factors at play.

This thread has been really interesting. I know I talk too much when I'm nervous. I also suffer from not being able to speak when I'm stessed.
It's very helpful reading rhe different perspectives.
Re 'quiet', even when I'm talkative I'm not actually loud.
I cringe when I can overhear other people talking loudly, in their gardens or outside my house. Not in a critical way, but uncomfortable, wondering if other people hear me in that way. Lots of people seem to do it deliberately though, and I do find that quite annoying. The louder other people around me get, the quieter I go, as an instinctive response.

@WinterFrog I'm the same, naturally quiet spoken but a chatterbox. I find loud people really difficult to be around.

Yes I've been a
Victim of it at school and work. Underestimated and undervalued.

But I think some of this (not you individually, in general) is something people need to take some responsibility for. Children are different, obviously, but in adulthood, it’s not other people’s job to advocate for you in the workplace, for example, to make sure your voice is heard, or your work is valued. If you don’t speak in meetings, put your ideas across, advocate for your project, then you absolutely risk being overlooked and underestimated, but that’s at least in part on you.

@PaperGloves agreed. I don't mean I need someone to advocate for me as I'm in quite a senior role and am confident in my work. but i do find it hard because i don't find small talk or social activities easy as I'm an introvert and i think you can be judged more on that than your actual work.