PND - how can it get better?

[Sofrustrated24]

NC as I’m so ashamed.

My son is nearly 8 weeks old. It was a difficult pregnancy (IVF, prior miscarriages, HG, preeclampsia, premature labour, haemorrhage, weeks in hospital). DH was able to take extra time off work but he’s had to go back this week so I’m on my own.

I’m not coping. I’m getting around 3 hours of sleep from around 8pm to midnight when DH does the feeds. Once I take over from DH for the feeds post midnight I just don’t sleep. Feeding/nappy/burping etc takes a good hour. My son only naps for short amounts of time in the day too (about 45 minutes) and he’s bottle fed on expressed breast milk so I need to express when he sleeps meaning I can’t nap during the day. He wants feeding every two hours so it’s relentless - especially once I’ve sterilised the pump etc. I feel like a massive failure for not being able to breastfeed so I feel like the expressing is the only good thing I’m doing for my son so I don’t want to switch to formula. He has colic and he screams and screams and nothing seems to comfort him.

I’ve been diagnosed with PND and I’m in the system for help (have upcoming appointments with psychiatry, counselling etc). I’m on antidepressants. But how can any of this possibly work? It’s not going to fix the treadmill. I’ve had consistent suicidal ideation which is getting worse and worse and harder to tune out. I don’t have any plans but I’m worried that might change in the future. When I think about the future I just feel hopeless. For the first time in my life (and I’ve been depressed before) I genuinely can’t identify a single thing I’m excited about or looking forward to.

I was never sure about being a mum and now I know why - I can’t do it. My son deserves so much better. Sorry for all the self pity but I just wanted to know if anyone has been here and if it did get better? Did the psychiatric input, medication etc help? I just feel so pathetic for not being able to cope with my own baby.

I have had PND, the medication took the edge of the suicidal idolisation and I also had talking therapy. To be honest, it was getting more sleep and getting small snippets of time to myself that made the biggest impact. It does get easier and after a year of meds I was able to stop. I used to think the kids would not even miss me if I was gone and that they would be better off without me. This did pass but it wasn't over night. My advice is to make self care a priority, which may be hard with such a little one and if you need to switch to formula to get more sleep then do it. You don't get a meddle for breastfeeding and you have given them a good start by expressing for so long. Take care

Couldn’t read and run. I’m so sorry you are going through this. I had similar with my first born but wasn’t ever diagnosed with anything but looking back it was a really rough time. She sounds very similar, our breastfeeding journey was a nightmare, she cried so so much, barely slept and I felt everyone could do a lot better for her than I could.
I moved her onto formula and she was so much happier, and that freed up some of my time as I wasn’t constantly up pumping and sterilising when I could have been getting precious sleep. I put such pressure on myself to breastfeed her and now looking back 7 years later I can see how that initial 6 months prior to weaning is such a tiny amount of time in comparison to the rest of her life but at the time it felt all encompassing. Not at all saying stop pumping but try not to put such pressure on yourself. You are unwell, on minimal sleep and doing your best. Things 100% improved for me, I used to tell myself every night that it was a day over that I would never have to do again and closer to her growing up. Now I wish the days would slow down and even have a second which I said I would never do. Listen to the doctors and be gentle with yourself. You can do this and your son loves you, just your smell and touch is comforting to him.

I'm 8 months in with my first and just wanted to message to say I also had a really rocky first few weeks and months. It does get easier. Snippets of time to yourself - stick baby in a rocker/chair/bouncer on the floor next to the shower/bath and don't race to get done, go for a walk somewhere you like, go and buy coffee and cake and watch the world go by and most of all don't feel guilty for doing those things. If you have support around you who could mind baby for a short period ask them for this. For me the shrinking of my world and lack of sleep just made me completely lost and hopeless. I found the anxiety stopped me sleeping even when baby would allow me to. I got into better sleep habits of phone down, lights down, music on, sleepy tea and this gradually got better. My little girl still doesn't sleep through and I'm still a very light sleeper but I'm definitely in a better place than those early weeks. If those suicidal thoughts are getting louder contact your perinatal team even if you haven't seen them yet - mine have been fantastic at calling me if I've needed support before scheduled appointments and they normally have a 'duty' nurse on mon-fri so although it might not be your named contact, there is someone there to listen and give professional advice. Sending lots of love and strength. Message me anytime if it would be helpful xx

Sleep deprivation is horrific. I honestly had one night when I told DH to take one of ours away because I was worried I might snap and throw him out the window.

You sound like you had an incredibly difficult journey to motherhood. Anyone would find that really, really hard.

Would you consider mix feeding? Pumping is the absolute pits in my experience. And i bet you couldn't tell from my 4 children which one was exclusively bf, which one had bottles of expressed milk sometimes, which one was mostly bottle fed and which one was mix fed. Happy mum is far more important than feeding method, and you need to be resting when you can.

I'm no expert on PND. But babies get easier and more predictable, and colic doesn't last forever. Sure, there will be other chanllenges, but you won't be this tired and that makes a HUGE difference.

Do you have family or friends that could come and help out? I was so greatful to a friend of mine who came for a visit, took one look at T me and said she's take the baby out for a walk in the pram and be back in two hours. I washed my hair and had a nap and felt much more able to face the day. Theres probably more help out there than you realise if you ask for it. Most mum's remember how tough it is.

I have had depression since I was 8 and the pnd was like no other episode. Being depressed and living a life that is not consistent with good mental health.

Do you think doing a mix of formula and expressed breastmilk might give you a bit more headspace. It doesn't have to be a long term strategy but maybe a couple of bottles over the weekend whilst your partner is around so you could get a little more sleep/rest and you might then be able to see the wood for the trees and cope with next week better.

Do keep reaching out to anyone and everyone. Health visitors offer listening appointments and I had some counselling with my HV recently to help me process my first year with my daughter. I had severe pnd and ended up in a mother and baby unit and my daughter has severe silent reflux and 20 food allergies and screamed for up to 20h a day until she was 5 months and was unsettled until about 10 months.

One of the things that have me the best rest was my partner taking our daughter every Saturday and Sunday morning and I sleep until 10. She's 4 next week and he is still doing it as she still doesn't sleep through the night and she settles best for me at night. Also I find being a wake in the night easier than being up early and my partner is the opposite so the split of overnights and mornings works for us. She was breastfeed but intermittently accepted a bottle. If she accepted a bottle he have her that and otherwise he brought her up for a feed then took her again. We went to formula at 10 months so he then gave her formula.
It might be worth thinking about what sleep is most restful for you and see if you can build that into your routine. There is absolutely no point me going to bed early as I won't sleep but I get better sleep in the morning

You can do it. There is absolutely no harm/shame/anything else in switching to formula, I'd honestly do it sooner rather than later. You sound exhausted and you need a break.

What I'd do is get the formula (or some expressed milk for now) ready, go straight to bed when DH gets home, even if that's 5pm. Stay there on complete do not disturb until midnight, or whenever you next really need to see to the baby.

Then tomorrow, go out, by yourself, even if it's only for a walk for half an hour.

13 years ago I had quite severe undiagnosed PND, I never sought any help and it nearly sent me under. You must share the load and re-claim time for yourself, things will get better, promise.

Oh OP I know it feels like a dark dark place right now. I don't think there is much I can add, but I just want to reiterate that you will feel better. PND is a situational depression and your situation is going to improve, babies are HARD. They are needy and ungrateful! It takes a huge amount of physical and mental energy to keep going but only in the short term, you are in a hard stage right now but you WILL get through it. Your boy will grow, he will smile at you, laugh at you, love you and hug you. He will sleep. It is coming. You just need to take care of yourself with all the support you can get to get through this stage. It is not just you, this is very common (I know it doesn't feel like it) please be kind to yourself OP.

And yes I would absolutely hand on heart look at formula, I think you will find it transformative and that is good for you AND him, I promise.

Exclusive pumping is brutal, sleep deprivation is brutal, and you’ve had quite the time of it with your pregnancy too. All this will be making the PND even tougher. So it’s pretty natural to feel like you can’t do it - all that stuff is too much for anyone to feel like they’re on top of things. But it doesn’t mean you’re not good enough.

Can you mix feed? Can your DP take your son from midnight til the morning on Fridays and Saturdays, or until 1-2am each day instead of midnight? Is there anyone else can do some nights eg a grandparent or even a night nanny if you have savings?

Thank you everyone. I know I probably need to think about formula but he’s doing so well on breast milk. I think I’m maybe still in the mindset I was in when he was on NICU that breast milk was the only thing I could really do for him. Having some formula would takeaway the anxiety that I’m not keeping up with his needs.

I understand. I felt very much the same. My depression was so severe that there was a period when I could barely get out of bed. My partner did absolutely everything the only thing he couldn't do was breastfeed and that's what I did. It was all I could manage.
She had food allergies and I took so much out of my diet my physical and mental health suffered so much but switching to formula wasn't easy as the GP kept prescribing unsuitable formulas. It was hard to let go too. It was bloody hard to breastfeed but stopping was bloody hard too. Stopping was the beginning of the end of my pnd as it allowed me to start treatment that allowed my mood to improve. I had gone through all the options I could breastfeed on.
I had tried to get combi feeding to work but the wrong formula gave my daughter a bottle aversion. I believe if I had managed to get combi feeding to work I would have stayed out of the mother and baby unit.

Combifeeding can give you the space to be human whilst still giving your little one plenty of breastmilk. It might be a bottle or two at the weekends to give you a break so 95% breastmilk. It might be a bottle a day so 80% breastmilk. Or 50:50 or you might find actual it works better and you go do mostly formula.
Do you think picking up a couple of preprepared bottles to have at home to try over the next few days. Get a bit of good quality rest and you can have a think about how you want to move forward. It's sounds like you are exhausted and things can feel impossible when you don't have the brain power to work through the possible scenarios. You have done a fantastic job so far. It's ok to have your own needs too. To be a good mum you have to be kind to yourself too. It's ok to make decisions based on your needs because baby needs a rested and happy mum.

Please don't feel ashamed ❤️ it's such a difficult time to navigate even when things "go smoothly"

My experience was very similar to yours and this is what helped me:

• Colic/silent reflux turned out to be CMPA. As soon as I cut out milk, the constant crying and terrible sleep eased slightly.

• pace feeding with the bottle if you haven't already tried also. And try different bottle types.

• Getting a baby carrier meant I could get out for some fresh air and walks which helped my mental health massively (my son wouldn't tolerate laying in the pram due to the reflux)

• shift system with hubs. I went to bed at 6pm for 3 hours. Then we swapped for 3 hours. I slept again 12-3am and swapped again. This meant he had (just enough) sleep to work. And I had more sleep to function in the days.

You'll have to find the things that work for you, and I know it's no help when people say "it won't last forever" because you just want every day to be over. So just focus on putting one foot in front of the other. I survived by seeing it as a duty/test I had to get through as opposed to trying to live any kind of normal life or expecting any kind of happiness etc.

So sorry OP it's absolutely rubbish 🌺

(My MH improved hugely when my periods came back if that helps to know)

8 weeks is a tricky time. They're sleeping less and are often fussier when they're awake. And with your partner going back to work I can imagine it all feels totally overwhelming at the moment.

Things will get easier. It might feel relentless at the moment but you can cope and you can start to feel happier.

Baby wants a happy mum. They do not care what they are fed. If switching to formula makes you less stressed and gives you more time to sleep or just have a break, then switch to formula. Millions of people worldwide have been raised on formula and have grown into healthy adults.

Try and find what is going on in your area for baby and start going to some baby groups. Local churches are great for cheap baby and toddler groups, though they might be off in the summer holidays. Having something you know is happening on certain days in the week can help stop you feeling like your days stretch out before you like never ending time that you just can't get through. Also, it's nice to chat to other mums about your babies and then as you get to know them, about other stuff as well. I met a few mums and babies that my daughter and I spent so much time with during her baby and toddlerhood.

Things will get better. Everything is new and scary right now but you'll settle into it, your baby will soon start being more aware of people and toys etc and will be easier to please. You can do this x

I hated the first 6 months. It is really really fucking hard and with pretty much no reward. Let's face it, baby is a screaming potato. It is very unrewarding and that plus a complete change in your life and no sleep it's absolutely miserable. I had pnd. I found the therapy really helped give me some perspective on not worrying about everything too much and also how to find balance again. It's early days. It will get better I promise. My son is two now and although I still have difficulty days he is so much fun to be with now.

@Turniptracker not to mention the constant pressure to "enjoy every moment", which I can only imagine is worse with IVF, just because it was harder to get pregnant I can imagine there is more pressure to be expected to enjoy every moment (which isn't rational or fair).

Thank you again everyone - these messages are really helping. DH managed to get off work early so I’ve had an afternoon nap and then we went for a walk and a chat. We’re going to get some formula so I know it’s there as a safety net which I think will take the constant worry that I’ve not got enough/means I can skip an express and nap. I’m going to call my mum and let her know how bad things are, they’re not local local but just about commutable for DH so we might stay there a bit more on days when he’s back at work (he’s dropped a day for the time being) so I’ve got extra support. I know my mum is really excited to help out, I just need to be brave and let her.

Yes, it was so hard and I feel so ungrateful that we finally got there and I’m just miserable.

We reached a crisis point at 4 months and moved in with my in-laws for 2 weeks over Christmas. Being looked after by my in laws meant we had more capacity to be there for our daughter.
I hope that it helps you too.
Just take things day by day

I felt HORRIFIC pumping, it was so exhausting and time consuming, a day after I decided to stop my mood massively lifted, and I was finally able to rest! Sending you loads of love, things WILL get better for you and never feel any guilt about formula feeding, formula can be life saving!

OP, you will begin to feel better. I could have written some of your post, it’s like reading about my own life with my first DC. I am better now, and you will get through this.

I had both my DC prematurely - 32 and 33 weeks.

DC 1 - NICU for 3 weeks. We could never get breastfeeding to work, so I exclusively pumped for about 7 months. It is probably my biggest accomplishment as it was the hardest thing I have ever done. Waking up to pump when baby slept, then waking again with the baby. Cleaning all the expressing equipment, and bottles, which luckily DH did. Nightmare. I became obsessive about keeping on expressing, and I really should have stopped earlier. I think I felt guilty that DC was born prematurely, I blamed myself about not carrying till term, so then I felt like I had to provide breastmilk at least, otherwise I was letting DC down again. This of course isn’t true at all, I was a great Mum, but I didn’t feel it. Then when I finally did stop, PND really hit. I felt like a failure and I spiralled down. I felt empty - I couldn’t come up with happy memories when asked in therapy. Unbelievable to look back on, but it’s how I felt. I remember thinking, if I really feel bad, I could walk out in the sea at least. I got panic attacks, massive health anxiety, and really was very unwell.

DC2 - pumped for about 2.5 months. I was able to see how pumping was affecting me again - I now had a baby, another child, and had to try and pump. I couldn’t manage it all, and made the positive step to stop expressing at that time. Moved to formula. This time I could see that I wasn’t failing my DC, and I didn’t get PND. Formula was absolutely the right decision for me.

I regret expressing for so long with DC1, I should have stopped earlier as it had such a negative effect on my life. When you’re in the middle of it, expressing/formula feeding feels like the most vital decision ever. But actually, our own mental health is so important, more so than whether it’s breast milk or formula. We want to enjoy our baby, and if expressing means no sleep and struggling every day, something has to change.

Sending best wishes and hope you feel much better really soon 💗

Expressing is HARD.

You've basically taken all of the hard elements of BF and FF and none of the benefits of either.

I did express (and hated every second) but also did some FF so DH could feed baby when I needed a nap. It also offered great peace of mind as I knew little one was getting plenty of milk. Once we added formula, she went from the 6th centile to the 50th within a month or so!

I completely understand the desire to continue expressing and giving breastmilk, but it's worth considering formula top ups if you're not able to rest.

The first 3 months of both my kids are quite a blur for me, and it's by far the hardest time IMO. It gets so much better as they go longer between feed and start sleeping more.

Don't be ashamed
I just wanted to say all the hormones from bf can have am affect to.
Also I bf but if it had been difficult to bf I would have 100% ff. Just the extra faff of pumping! So you have done amazing to pump for your little one!
Also we found week 8 the hardest for colic and grizzly Ness. So fingers crossed baby might be at the top of the curve.
Second the idea of baby wearing as well to help you get outside. There's a really helpful Facebook page for uk baby wearing.

Yes, it was so hard and I feel so ungrateful that we finally got there and I’m just miserable.

I understand that thought process when you're in a dark place, but it's not true and not helpful. Please remember that YOU matter too, your mental health, your body, your happiness, that doesn't change when you have a baby, it all matters and your son will benefit from that also when you're able to start treating yourself kinder too. Having a baby does not erase you, do not feel guilty for being in pain, or unhappy, or finding it hard. Acknowledge those feelings, look at what you're achieving getting through each day, you are still here, you are still getting through each day, and take some solace in knowing it will get better.

I couldn't read and leave.

I was in your shoes OP. I couldn't see a light, it was awful. I got prescribed Sertraline. I gave up with expressing and breastfeeding, I switched to formula (Kendamil) at about 8 weeks. Giving up expressing made such a difference for my mental health. DD was happy and healthy with formula. In hindsight, I wish I hadn't pressured myself so much. Formula was the right decision for me. It also helped with DH and taking night feeds whilst I got some rest. DD is now 26 months, and she's a happy and beautiful tornado of chaos.

Remember, your mental health is also important. Sending you best wishes ♥️

I do wonder if any studies have been done on BF and if levels of PND are higher with those BF, especially nowadays with more nuclear families, I suppose back in the day you'd feed and could hand baby over to grandma/auntie/sister etc who probably lived close by. BF is so isolating without a "village". (I BF as well and put myself under huge pressure and believe it was a huge contributory factor in my PND).