Smart, kind, helpful 7 year old DESTROYING home

[cassielb]

Hi fellow mums. First time poster long time viewer needing desperate help or advice.

My 7 year old daughter has been displaying quite destructive habits the last 1-2 years.

Quick summary on her though she is extremely smart, well behaved in school, very helpful, kind, polite everything is great other than her constantly destroying her room.

She has picked up an attitude the last few months as expected but she quickly apologises when she knows she is wrong. Now with the destroying her room. She has drawn on walls, toys, furniture, carpet so we took her desk out and had a rule of only pens and crafts downstairs. Great! This continued as she would either sneak pens home from nana's/school/downstairs so we started doing bag checks and made her clean up what she had ruined. Great! Christmas goes by and she got some stocking crafts and completely destroyed her tonies she had just gotten by drawing colouring all over them. My fault for not checking what family members had given her when passing by at Xmas. So we got more strict with checking her room, basically compromised and said you prove you can be responsible for your room we will fix up (fix it meaning repaint what she had destroyed and change her room a little).

Our last straw was her drawing on her infant sisters toys while I was upstairs changing her. We cancelled her school holiday activities and she was not allowed to see her nana (who she loves) that week. My last straw and why I'm writing this post was I just went to tuck her in while she was asleep and noticed she has carved out chunks of her wall and carved numbers letters into the wall with a hair clip.

I woke her up asked why and it's the usual, I don't know, I don't remember, it was an accident, I'm sorry! I'm at my wits end, she is such a good child in every other aspect other than this. When I say she is so so so kind loving smart she is an angle but this we cannot seem to budge. We tried back checks, reward coins, reward charts, grounding, no activities, no tv, only books in her room, everything. I don't know what else to do, it's been 2 years of her ruining her room in our first home we have bought and it's only getting worse. Any advice is much appreciated

P.s : she went through a phase of taking things from nana's house, cousins house and had even taken things from shops. This went on for around a year but after letting her know if it happened again we would have to tell the police this has stopped. For good hopefully!

Pss: he dad has adhd, I don't know much about it but he seems to think she had it. She is a bit fidgety and her school report is great other than her getting distracted! This aside as I said she is an amazing child which is why I get so frustrated punishing her.

I need help

It really isn’t.

I had another thought, would a fidget toy (push pop bubble style) kept under her pillow help to break this habit?

Punishment is a ugly word. It is a very MN word. Schools talk about Behaviour management. They certainly don't have Punishment policies but Behaviour Management Policies. Does your Health Visitor really give advice on how to punish a child ? I find that hard to believe. Which LEA or Health Trust would ever allow this?
We would describe an adult as abusive if they discussed ways of punishing their husband or wife. As other posters have said, it is all about communication and understanding the reasons for your daughter's behaviour.

I agree about encouraging the drawing and seeing it as creativity rather than destructiveness. She seems to have the impulse to paint and draw on large and on unconventional surfaces, so I would let her - walls, giant cardboard boxes, pieces of wood, stones, old barrels, objects you find outside or find in the bin. Chalkboard wall is a great idea, but she may feel drawn towards some particular art materials (other than chalk)- have you asked her what she most likes to use? My kids were not in general eager to use kids' easels or kids' paints, but they loved other art materials and set-ups. If you encourage and discuss her art, you can also discourage drawing on her sister's things, etc.

I also think that punishing kids by not letting them do things that are good for them is not the best idea. It is good for your daughter to see Grandma and to do her holiday activities, or her sports clubs, etc, so I would not take away those privileges. To me this is like saying- you have been unkind so no broccoli for dinner tonight, or no school tomorrow.
Seeing grandparents and doing constructive things outside are so good for kids!

My children are all grown up, and I think I probably had a very different parenting style from the OP, so not sure my advice is useful or relevant!

She has a playroom for her crafts messy play toys etc. I don't discourage her creativity it's just not allowed in her bedroom as a consequence of her drawing on furniture etc.

She did not see her nana that week as a family choice. She stays there every Friday to Saturday. Because she has drawn on all her sisters Xmas toys on the Friday she stayed at home and did not go out with her nana the next day to soft play as this was awarding bad behaviour in my eyes. It was only one weekend she didn't go as she stayed with me and helped clean what we could and stayed in playing as usual for the rest of the day and continued her activities of swimming from the Sunday and continued her ballet, gymnastics, tennis and cycle club as normal. I did not stop any activities ha ha they cost too much!

Well whatever you want to call it punishment or disciplining. It's consequences of their actions. Are we not meant to teach our children right from wrong nowadays? My HV and counsellor both said remove and replace the issue which is what I have done. No pens or crafts in the bedroom she has a full playroom do explore her creativity in. That's not harsh punishment

I am sorry- I didn't mean to say anything critical or to imply that you are not encouraging creativity or that you are depriving her of anything at all. You sound very caring and very appreciative of your daughter's talents! My comments are more general and probably don't apply to your situation - just general thoughts:

Some kids like unconventional art supplies and ways of expressing themselves (all of mind did murals on their walls, all very different).

In general I guess punishments like keeping kids home didn't seem helpful in our family, so if they don't help in yours maybe there is a different approach. I know that for some families your approach works very well- which is why I said in my first message: 'My children are all grown up, and I think I probably had a very different parenting style from the OP, so not sure my advice is useful or relevant!'

Mum of 3 diagnosed with ADHD and I have it myself. This is impulsive behaviour. It doesn’t make it ok and she needs help to regulate herself but that’s what this is, I’d be prepared to bet heavily on.

Plus, the taking things - that’s different to stealing. I used to do it if I had been somewhere I liked or felt safe, I’d take something. My granny spotted what was happening and we agreed that I could take a nice stone from her garden, for example as opposed to her best ornaments. Or her knitting.

My three do a similar thing, one much more than the others - again we agreed on a stone or a stick etc and he also has these hidden in his bag. He has a feel of them when he needs to. It’s like the object has a connection of its own somehow. He’s also a bit of a hoarder if left unchecked again with things he’s applied sentiment to - so an old pizza box from a nice day out we had!

Defo explore the neurodiversity side of things and if you try and view her behaviour as an unmet need devoid of spite then things may appear clearer.

That’s not to say she shouldn’t have consequences as they will help embed the more acceptable behaviour, but it’s how it’s framed which will make the difference.

To add, permanent markers and sharp knives were banned some years ago. The compulsion to “just see what might happen” is too overwhelming.

My mum banned nail varnish when I still lived at home after an incident where I covered the back of the bathroom door in monarch red gloss. Except it looked much worse because it was a tiny bottle of nail varnish not actual paint. But it felt soooo nice when I got going on it and then horror horror when I realised what I’d done. I was 14, and otherwise sensible.

My elder son has ADHD as a DC he used to dig out pieces of wall with anything he could find and also cut things. Once he used the tiny blade thing in a pencil sharpener to cut his bed sheets. I tried everything. Rewards for not being destructive, punishment for destruction. Nothing worked and it went on from about 7-13 years, until he went through puberty then it stopped quite suddenly.

She sounds like she’s crying out for your connection - and perhaps being sent away for most of the weekend whilst I assume baby stays with you is actually making her feel rejected? When she did this thing it meant staying home with mummy and spending time together. Maybe that’s what she’s after?

@Muthaofcats I doubt that. She's very open about her emotions and feelings which is why we struggle to understand why she is doing this.

She's not kept away every weekend. My partner and I both are in our business on Fridays so my mum picks her up from school on Fridays and often times my daughter ASKS to stay there. It's been like this since she was 2 if she ever didn't want to stay she wouldn't but she loves being at her nana's with her and her sister.

As mentioned previously, we have a single mum and daughter day no baby no dad once a week. All her activities I take her to alone. My job is very flexible so I am a very involved parent so no, this is not her crying out for a connection

Are you sure she hasn't got adhd? The impulsiveness would definitely suggest its more than usual 'decorating' and tge lack of response to wall charts/stickers and lack of awareness of what shes doing ..

Definitely a trip to the GP... I'm not sure i would cancel physical activities though....as punishment as its so good for her ..
Maybe other types of consequences like no tv or screen?? But if it is ashd not sure they will be effective

Questions I would ask:
What is making her anxious? Lack of attention? School issue?
What is she getting out of doing it - regulation, sensory experience, creativity, focus/calming?
What is this behaviour communicating? "I have to draw on things to feel OK and I need to do it so badly that I'll even do it where I get into trouble".

I would paint or paper a bedroom wall white, give her pens and let her draw anything she wants. And make sure she always has a little sketchbook and that she knows you think she's great at drawing (assuming not just scribbling). Having it in her bedroom is more private and personal and may be a lot more comforting.

Didn't you see that guy who doodled his whole house?
You can't punish a child out of their emotional needs.

Wow. Thank you for the response. When was he diagnosed?x

It was one day she was supposed to goto Softplay with her nana but we cancelled this after she had drawn on her sisters new toys. We didn't want to reward bad behaviour. All her extra curricular activities I have never cancelled, she needs that output and plus they cost too much to cancel ha ha

Yes we are exploring the adhd route due to my partner having it. She has been refused referrals as she 'shows no signs'. Currently in a counselling situation and hoping to have private testing done if this does not help

Does she draw on things at grandma's house?

Yes! She has in the past but my mum follows the same rules of no crafts in bedrooms (she has her own kids room) and only downstairs at the dining table or living room

hey you sound like a lovely mum and i totally see why you’re frustrated and confused with your dd’s behaviour here. you mention your dh has adhd and i definitely think the possibility of your child being neurodivergent too is something to consider. im Autistic and as a child i was very well behaved, high achieving, friendly etc but often engaged in destructive behaviour/vandalism type things, like drawing on walls, floor and furniture like my mums brand new pale leather sofa which I scribbled all over and stabbed with the pen. i also had a habit of cutting things with craft scissors including my hair! i remember feeling so guilty and upset with myself for doing it and hated feeling like i was being ‘bad’ but i just couldn’t stop myself from doing it on impulse, it’s like i kind of went into a trance and hyperfixated on it and didn’t really realise what i was doing until it was too late. it sounds like she’s not being naughty or defiant on purpose and it might be the case that she really not realising she’s doing it. i think active punishments, especially stopping her from seeing her granny, might be a little harsh if it is the case that she can’t really control the behaviours, and she might feel attacked or misunderstood which might cause her to be defensive and have more of an attitude as you say. i agree with other posters about trying to give her as many outlets as possible to get it out her system without damaging your house, and maybe look into neurodivergence as a possibility too. sending love <3

Regardless of whether she is neurodivergent or not (and I agree with others that if this is the only issue it seems unlikely) you presumably want to stop it,

Am I correct in that dye has been doing it for two years, and does it both at your house and at grandma's? If so, your approach of using punishments is not working,

The point of punishments or consequences is that the child stops and thinks before doing it and then decides not to.

She clearly isn't.

So you can keep going with the punishments, but they aren't changing her behaviour,

Alternatively, you can start trying to understand her behaviour so you can change it.

So - you need to look at it from her perspective. A simple analysis tool is the abc analysis. So each time she draws on the wall or whatever, look at

Antecedents: what happened before she drew on the wall. Where was she? What was she doing? Was there a trigger? Was she bored?

Behaviour: what exactly did she do? How?

Consequences:
NOT what you impose - but for example - she gets attention, she is shouted at, she has sensory input, she feels like it belongs to her etc.

If you start to unpick what is going on you may be able to provide an alternative and stop it happening as she prefers the alternative.

He's an adult now. He doesn't destroy things anymore but he is very impulsive, poor at saving and he becomes almost fixated with his hobby of the moment. Over the years he has been obsessed with surfing, kayaking, Lego building and now the latest is photography. He works, has his own home, a lovely gf and is kind and affectionate. As a DC he was medicated. As an adult he prefers not to take medication.

This thread is nuts. It makes me wonder how people completely lost sight of what normal childhood behaviour is. Literally everyone has a story of the impulsive things they did as a child (cutting siblings hair off, mutilating barbies, drawing on walls etc) At least everyone I know does. It’s so common it’s a trope! But now in 2024 apparently it’s needs a diagnosis.

I’ll leave it there but thanks to the poster who has reminded me of the pure satisfaction of biting my pine bed frame to leave little imprints of my teeth all the way along. The slight crunching sound it made

I chewed my pine bed too 🤣 and spent hours picking at the horrid wood chip wall paper. My brother cut my hair off, he was about 7 or 8 and I was 5, we were playing hair dressers. Then there was the time he painted me with brown gloss paint. Kids do these things but often they only do it once and not repeat the same thing over and over again after being punished many times.

It is normal in the sense that plenty of young children do it, and then they grow put of it.

Normal doesn't always equal desirable. They're children, they learn with some guidance and they grow up.

You're welcome but I did have a very thorough multidisciplinary autism assessment conducted by the NHS, in which they interviewed me several times (and close family members) and confirmed I am 100% autistic. So by bringing up my post you've created a bit of a paradoxical situation there.