Smart, kind, helpful 7 year old DESTROYING home

[cassielb]

Hi fellow mums. First time poster long time viewer needing desperate help or advice.

My 7 year old daughter has been displaying quite destructive habits the last 1-2 years.

Quick summary on her though she is extremely smart, well behaved in school, very helpful, kind, polite everything is great other than her constantly destroying her room.

She has picked up an attitude the last few months as expected but she quickly apologises when she knows she is wrong. Now with the destroying her room. She has drawn on walls, toys, furniture, carpet so we took her desk out and had a rule of only pens and crafts downstairs. Great! This continued as she would either sneak pens home from nana's/school/downstairs so we started doing bag checks and made her clean up what she had ruined. Great! Christmas goes by and she got some stocking crafts and completely destroyed her tonies she had just gotten by drawing colouring all over them. My fault for not checking what family members had given her when passing by at Xmas. So we got more strict with checking her room, basically compromised and said you prove you can be responsible for your room we will fix up (fix it meaning repaint what she had destroyed and change her room a little).

Our last straw was her drawing on her infant sisters toys while I was upstairs changing her. We cancelled her school holiday activities and she was not allowed to see her nana (who she loves) that week. My last straw and why I'm writing this post was I just went to tuck her in while she was asleep and noticed she has carved out chunks of her wall and carved numbers letters into the wall with a hair clip.

I woke her up asked why and it's the usual, I don't know, I don't remember, it was an accident, I'm sorry! I'm at my wits end, she is such a good child in every other aspect other than this. When I say she is so so so kind loving smart she is an angle but this we cannot seem to budge. We tried back checks, reward coins, reward charts, grounding, no activities, no tv, only books in her room, everything. I don't know what else to do, it's been 2 years of her ruining her room in our first home we have bought and it's only getting worse. Any advice is much appreciated

P.s : she went through a phase of taking things from nana's house, cousins house and had even taken things from shops. This went on for around a year but after letting her know if it happened again we would have to tell the police this has stopped. For good hopefully!

Pss: he dad has adhd, I don't know much about it but he seems to think she had it. She is a bit fidgety and her school report is great other than her getting distracted! This aside as I said she is an amazing child which is why I get so frustrated punishing her.

I need help

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I have read I wondered if a very gentle therapy called Drawing and Talking might help her. It's therapeutic but totally unintrusuve and can be hugely helpful. (I'm a practitioner). They might offer it at her school or maybe you could find someone local. She's trying to communicate something but even she doesn't know what. Poor her and poor you.
https://drawingandtalking.com/

The drawing on things sounds normal , as does a little bit of attitude . When my son was around that age , he became a little argumentative which was unusual as he was always so good but I think he was just finding his voice ! It’s an age where I imagine she would be in y2 ? I teach y2 and they seem to get a little more defiant at this age - I think it’s just that y1 is still kind of similar to reception- they play a lot , continuous provision etc - whereas y2 it’s structured sitting at a desk and working which obviously entails more behaviour management. It passed quite quick with my son !

Drawing on walls and toys too- he went through a stage of this ( I specifically remember him going into his brothers room and writing his name and drawing and then underneath writing “ this was not ( his name ) this was ( older brothers name ) “ well , kind of writing lol . He was adamant it wasn’t him and he never , ever admitted it was 🤣

But the gouging of walls etc and the fact she has continued after punishments ( I banned pens unless he was at the table in the kitchen ! It stopped ) isn’t as normal . I have another child who is autistic and he used to do things like this and say he couldn’t remember . I would watch him and he would be zoned out whilst doing it and when I mentioned it , he would stop as if he didn’t realise he was doing it.

As you say your DH has ADHD maybe ask for a chat with the school , see what they think , maybe they have noticed small things in class ? Maybe a chat with the SENCO?

Reply of the thread! 🏅

Our last straw was her drawing on her infant sisters toys while I was upstairs changing her. We cancelled her school holiday activities and she was not allowed to see her nana (who she loves) that week

This is cruel and totally ineffective.

Star charts, rewards, praise and unrelated consequences do not work. They fail to develop intrinsic motivation. They are also a form of coercion, which they then mimic in relationships.

Natural consequences work, like her cleaning off the pen in your example.

Also, taking away chocolate or using any food as punishment creates an unhealthy relationship with food. Food is food, not a tool, chocolate is food, not a treat to put on a pedestal to be coveted. Kids eat in colour and Ellyn Satter are great on this.

In terms of praise, pointing to the action not the attribute is what fosters intrinsic motivation. ‘You’re really taking care of your toys’ as opposed to ‘good girl, you’re so clever etc’ (this type of praise actually causes low-self esteem by creating dependence on external validation

How to talk so kids will listen, Janet Lansbury and Gabor Mate have a lot of really useful insights on this stuff.

In terms of practical advice to help with an ADHD referal (as it sounds like you probably need this, only to rule it out if nothing else) I would say to keep a record of all this behavior and maybe videos and photos on your phone . Then revist your GP with it - ask to see a different GP in the practice who may be more understanding. In our GPs you need to know the right one to see to get help and some are better than others. You can ask to do something called Right to Choose if you are in England, which means you can choose a private provider and the NHS pay for it. Current waiting lists in my area are about 4 years for ASD/ADHD assessment on the NHS pathway but about a year if you do RTC. But the first stage is a referral - join your local parent carer forum and ask for advice - there is probably a parent in there that can tell you which GP is best.

Every child with ASD or ADHD presents differently so its no use other posters saying their child didn't do it . My youngest was diagnosed with ASD at 6 so our household is set up very differently to others. My eldest has just been diagnised with ASD and ADHD last year after a 2 year wait (he was only assessed as he was coming up to 18 so was pushed up the queue). Our methods have probably been helping him without us realising . Each condition offsets the other in his individual way so he is a massive rule follower and is an excellent masker at school, but needs an outlet when he comes home. No one but us really suspected anything so it took a lot of pushing from me, but I'd trust your and your husband's gut feeling here. As your husband has ADHD himself he is probably the best person to judge.

ADHD, which I'm currently educating myself on, has 3 strands - hyperactivity, inattention and impulsiveness. All 3 do not have to be present. So your daughter could be mainly impulsive and inattentive (you said school mentioned lack of focus).

We also have a lot of sensory things that help (not just fidget toys) that both sons have, like weighted blankets and gym balls to sit on and bounce . But its all individual - things i think they will like they don't . My eldest takes pens apart and fiddles with springs for instance . So its finding what works and hoping it helps.

I do think you are right in taking a hard line on discipline though. There are lines that shouldn't be crossed as they do have to learn to live within boundaries . But I would advise looking up some ADHD strategies and seeing if these work with your daughter. All children are unique though and its a bit if detective work to find the strategy that works with her. My sons couldn't be more different fron each other so its been a journey to get them to young adults, and will continue to be so as they become more independent. They will still need ongoing supoort in different ways though.

Parenting a Neurodiverse child is very different and is a lot of hard work that I don't think everyone realises if they dont have one themselves. Its a unique journey for every one of them . They are your child though and they are amazing in their own ways.

Christ, I despair at the armchair psychologists diagnosing a child they've never met with ADHD on the basis of a couple of paragraphs.

But also - reading your updates there appears to be a clear link between your moving house and new baby and her behaviour. She destroyed and hid her sisters Christmas toys?

Personally, I'd be asking myself a few questions. Is she getting the attention she needs since baby was born? Are you making sure you are spending quality time with her without her younger sibling? Did anything else happen with the house move (i.e. was she uprooted from a school/nursery setting where she had lots of friends, etc etc)?

Sounds like a normal little girl who is perhaps feeling the impact of a new sibling and new house and needing a bit more care and attention. All behaviour is communication.

Completely agree with this post. Something seems to be definitely amiss here and I’d be taking it further, I’m baffled by the amount of comments saying this is normal behaviour but maybe I’m naive. It just seems like she needs help OP you must be at your wits end. Hope you get some!

You know what she meant. Why are you so desperate to appear superior?

These punishments jumped out at me too. There is something going on and it’s up to you, her parent to find out what it is. Is she masking at school? Holds it all on to get through the day and decompressed at home in this way.? Gouging the walls sounds like she’s coping with frustration and stress.

Read the damn thread. The OP has said multiple times that she spends plenty of one on one time with her daughter.

😂😂😂

Why is it surprising that no one has mentioned some completely made up woo bunkum? What a ridiculous post. This is never going to be the reason 🤦🏼‍♀️

Much more likely ADHD or AuDHD

Wow! Take a chill pill. I didn't have time to read through them all. I'm soooo sorry🙄

It’s not made up!! You’re all laughing but it’s true - young children are very susceptible to spirits and other energies. I’d suggest having the house cleansed or blessed and see if it makes any difference

It sounds like there is something going on here. I really understand your frustration as she sounds so well behaved. I would maybe go down the route of enabling her but setting some firm boundaries. Perhaps paint a wall white or black with washable paint and encourage her to express her creativity on it BUT remind her that it's her space.. she MUST respect other people's space. Whatever happens in her room accept..if she damages or destroys other people's property that is not OK. Remove her art equipment for an agreed time. Good luck..children can be so tricky

Back when I was a child, this was called being naughty. If you were naughty, you got punished. If you did it again, you got punished harder. It didn’t take long to learn not to do it again. Nobody took us to therapy. Nobody tried to diagnose us with anything.
you work hard to maintain your home, and there are no circumstances where it is ok for a child to deface, damage or vandalise it. If your child is otherwise well behaved, then this is her naughty behaviour. But sadly, you’re going to be told you need to accommodate this, you need a diagnosis, it’s normal. It’s not. You are right. And you are not being unreasonable to think so.

Tokek I have apologised to the OP. But it wasn’t about being superior.

As I was reading your post my thoughts went to similar memories of things I did and her probably being adhd & then I saw your last comment. I’m finding out more and more about it after 49 yrs! 2 yrs of all the dots finally lining up & thinking of all the ‘signs’ as a kid, teenager & adult finally fall into place & yet no1 would really know from my very over compensated behaviours. Girls present differently & they also are flipping brilliant at masking. I would say she’s stimming and it’s probably a way for her mind to idle and help her self sooth and slow down. She won’t remember doing it & genuinely is a calming & relaxing trance as opposed to her brain being like driving down a motorway at top speed on the wrong side the rest of the time. Maybe try replacing with Roblox, something hadsy like modelling clay or stress balls something that can be constantly moving and refreshed for new sensation. Lean in

Children exhibit ADHD differently and impulse control can be an issue. This is a really judgy comment.

So both male? Girls present differently to males... And unless we are qualified child psychologists not sure we are qualified to say so its best for a suitably qualified professional to assess.

Punishments don’t work. They sometimes create compliance but that’s not the same as intrinsically motivated good behavior. Discipline, boundaries, connection and respect is what works.

Generations of ineffective punishment and developmentally inappropriate expectations is the reason we now have a mental health crisis.

@Wartsandalll

Christ, I despair at the armchair psychologists diagnosing a child they've never met with ADHD on the basis of a couple of paragraphs.

Did you miss the part where she said her DH has ADHD?

@cassielb you seem reluctant to accept that your daughter might have ADHD. If a parent has it, 80%chance child will have it. You’ve repeatedly mentioned how she was refused because she not showing signs. Don’t bury your head in the sand. Girls with ADHD are often misdiagnosed

when you hear hooves think horses not zebra

How often does your dd spend time alone with her father? It seems that everything is centred around you and her together.

Hi, no I didn't miss that bit, thanks.

Maybe stop having a go at her for every time she colours on something? Even if you don’t approve? Is it that big of a deal if she draws on a toy? You’re just punishing her for every little behaviour you don’t like by the sounds of it. and it’s clearly not working . Poor kid.

My daughter is allowed to draw paint whatever she wants to do in her wardrobe, she also has a wall of her bedroom which is a chalkboard wall which she scribbles on etc etc. she draws on her toys - yeah I don’t like it but is it end of the world? No. Do I make a fuss and punish her ? Absolutely not.

sounds like you want to stamp out every little thing she does you don’t like - you’re going to be forever battling if that’s the case. and she will just resent you for punishing her over every little thing she does too.

she is good at school etc you can’t expect her to be perfect!! I feel sorry for her tbh!

So if you don’t see it as being naughty why do you continue to punish her when clearly it doesn’t work! The not letting her see her nana and taking away her holiday club activities that’s just terrible of you!! Sounds like she is perfectly behaved in every aspect of her life so her only outlet is this ! And even this you are punishing her and making her feel guilty for it ! Poor child! Drawing on her tonies - so what? It’s hers she can do what she likes with it! Have you tried not trying to stamp out every little thing you don’t like about her? Try thinking it’s her bedroom she can do what she likes with it ….! Stop being so precious. You have said multiple times this is the only thing she does “wrong” you should be grateful!