13 year old son tried to black mail me

[rob38]

My son mostly lives with his mother, he has missed most of the last two - three months of school. Since June when he has been in school he has had a detention nearly every day and has had 5 or 6 suspensions. He has had support from Camhs but just seems to be acting this way for fun, and has repeatedly told me he is choosing to mess around.

On Tuesday he stayed over with me after he said that his mother had hit him and he had hit her back (he has a social worker at the moment who I reported this to).

I got him up for school on Wednesday morning, and found him a pen to take as he didn't have a pencil case with him, and his teachers had complained about him coming to class without a pen. He refused to take the pen unless I gave him £20, I though he was joking and said to him 'are you joking? I hope you are joking', to which he replied he wasn't. He then said that he was going to mess around at school unless I gave him £20. I am aware that he blackmails his mum, and I said to him that that does not work on me and that I wanted him to tell me that he was joking, to which he said he wasnt.

I explained to him how much distress his behavior had been causing everyone and that I could not believe he was acting this way with me.

On that day I had planned to go Christmas shopping for him and was going to spend up to $1000. After more attempts at blackmail in the car I said to him that I was going to drop his stuff off at his mums, that he doesn't behave like that with me, and that I was going to give him £100 for Christmas instead of spending £1000.

@AmyandPhilipfan

He is ahead in reading and writing and of average ability in maths.

I get notified by his school when he fails to sign in or get a detention. After I dropped him back at his mums he went into school two days and behaved in school on both days. That hasnt happened for months.

I either carry on with what is not working, or I am harsher with him. I can carry on being a therapeutic parent but its not working to stop him from misbehaving etc. and that misbehaving is causing him harm in lost time with friends at school, exercise, and missing out on education.

@Josette77

From his reaction it does not look as if he has been set back, it looks like he has moved forward.

Its possible that his behavior in blackmailing me was him just being naughty. You can't count every negative behavior a child with ASD, ADHD or trauma exhibits as being solely related to their ASD, ADHD or trauma. Kids are sometimes just naughty.

@Divanshi

Your child is hitting you and has been out of school for a year. Your technique may not be working.

As I said earlier I use PACE, which is a therapeutic parenting technique, the C stands for curiosity, that is the bit you talk about 'I work with him to find out why'

My son is very socially intelligent, and appears to have been emboldened over the last few months to misbehave through my use PACE and his schools caring approach (something they are starting to change their mind on too)

My son may just be being naughty. He has been through a tough time, and I do believe he has suffered trauma, but no child is 100% perfect, some of my child's negative behavior might have nothing to do with trauma, he may just be being misbehaved. And where instead of using therapeutic parenting, I was harsh with him, the result was that he went to school two out of three following days and behaved all day at school. The first time that has happened since early September.

Absolutely this!

@Bananawotsit

He stays with me once per week, more if he wants to, this is the first time I have sent him back to his mums.

I spend lots of time with him, playing games, joking around, asking him how he is, about school etc. I haven't given him a money threat.

My child hits when in fight or flight. Not because he wants to be naughty. Educate yourself on sen before commenting on how it isnt working. My child has suffered trauma due to unmet needs, is currently in burnout, unable to wear clothes, unable to leave the house.

As I've said previously, trauma doesn't just disappear.

My child has a formal diagnosed disability and at present, no schools can meet his needs, due to the complexity. If I was doing a bad job because he hits me and isn't in school, why do we have funded carers for him, paid by social services? Why does he require maximum support, with even basic tasks such as dressing etc

Why does he have a legal binding document (ehcp) stating how complex his needs are

Get off your high horse and take a look at how dismissive you're being to your own child.

Your own child, who's suffered abuse, that you've sent him back to. That's your own doing. You're coming across as very immature and lacking accountability for your part to play in your child's behaviours yet you're expecting a child with trauma to react as an adult with no trauma.

What do you mean you ‘haven’t given a money threat’? You said you’d reduce Christmas spend by £900…..

Firstly it is very hard to know what to do for the best. It sounds an all round horrible situation for your son and you. Obviously not knowing you all in person makes it very difficult to really give advice. My advice is keep being there for him. Number one biggest thing. This would include not dropping him back at mum’s unless he requested it. what’s done is done now. Don’t beat yourself up about it but avoid in future.

With the pen and money situation I would in future suggest being very non fazed. As some others have said give pen if he refuses to take shrug and say your choice. Then later if he gets in trouble at school say well our decision have consequences. Stay calm but firm at the same time. Use a firm tone but avoid shouting.

re the presents now you have said it stick to the 100 limit. Don’t mention it but again if he does say well this is a consequence which I said would happen.

definitely with the boxing - presents later can then be related to the sports and not about the monetary value. This would shift focus away from monetary rewards or punishments.

Also for school equipment would he respond to choosing some stuff next time you are at the shops eg pens pencils math set etc. you could try even on a supermarket shop to let him put a few things in the trolly.

keep going and being there for him. All the best I hope he finds his way.

Forget CHAMS they are not recognising there is an issue here. Do they know the past situation? You say the behaviour began 2020 which is when he was abused and stopped from seeing you. He would have believed and felt that you left him and didn't care at that time as you didn't rescue him. Speak to the mental health charity MIND or find a local trauma specialist therapist and get your son help.

Have you talked to him about what happened in 2020? It's hard as you can't just point the finger at the mum but you need to say to him that you should have done more and that you are sorry he had to go through that. Tell him you will always fight for him and you want him to reach his future dreams and goals but he is in self destruction mode and you want to find a way through this together

I don’t get the bit about you putting in en emergency order for residence in 2020 and your ex saying you were abusive. Did she have any proof? Did you proceed to court and explain she did not have any proof? If social services were involved due to her abuse of DC, would the courts not investigate this further? If DC are still with her, social services must have decided to be supportive of her parenting, because that is what they would have investigated.

And I also am curious whether this abusive and neglectful behaviour to DC developed overnight, surely if you left DC with her when you split up in 2019, she was a decent parent, right? Or you would have asked the courts for residency then?

One day a week is really not enough for an involved father. So I wonder how involved you have been because whatever parenting techniques you have used, it’s been one day a week.

So none of this particular makes sense, and no doubt makes even less sense to a thirteen year old. I do agree with the poster upthread who said you need to talk to him about it.

Nonetheless, what I came on to say was that. If your DS is going to school, then you encourage this in different way by chatting about his day - if you don’t see him, use WhatsApp or whatever chat platform he uses, ask him about his homework and how his friends are doing. Not just once a week but check in every day. He needs to know you are a steady presence.

And the ability to lead people to create chaos needs to be put to better use by your DS to lead people to do good because actually chaos in the classroom ruins everyone’s education, not just his own. What subjects does he enjoy? Are there any extra curricular clubs he can join? What about exercise and sport?

I have a lot of different points to make and questions.

Firstly I want to say that all behaviour is communication. So his behaviour is telling you something. What it’s telling you will need unpicking.

What’s his relationship like with his sister. Do they get on? Have they been cast in roles, her the golden child and him the black sheep?

Are you disrespectful about mum to the children? Do the children know you think she’s a crap parent? It’s good to label behaviours which are not acceptable unacceptable (her hitting) and get the right help, however bitching behaviours are divisive and undermining, they will create issues.

A combination of PACE with fair consistent boundaries delivered with warmth and love is probably best.

what exactly are CAHMS doing? This is a seriously underfunded ineffective public service. What are they actually doing with him? Weekly counselling? Has he seen a psychiatrist for assessment?

Do you have access to family Heathcare through your work? Can he have a physiatrist assessment if he hasn’t had one. Also weekly counselling if he’s not receiving this.

How does he feel about school? Why does he avoid attending school? What does he like and dislike? What would he say the biggest issues are?

Hes clearly got into a cemented routine behaving as he is in school. He now has a reputation among pupils and teachers. He will be fulfilling expectations when he misbehaves. Would a change of school help? A fresh start if he wants it? A clean slate? Alternatively under his existing school there should be access to a PRU (education in alternate setting) or online learning. Speak to the school to find out what they can offer and if fobbed off ask these questions to the LA directly.

What does he do out of school?

what are his interests?

Has he positive male role models outside of school?

Has he had any professional careers advice? Has he got plans for the future? Plans for an apprenticeship maybe if he’s sick of educational settings?

You say he is a leader of men, this is a top skill and could be put to great use in a club or hobby setting. Could he volunteer to help younger kids groups at his boxing gym? Or other sports clubs? Giving responsibility can help growth.

are there new things and clubs he would like to try? Climbing indoors, canoeing, chess?

Is there a Saturday job he could take? One where he becomes part of a team, is valued and becomes an essential cog in teams performance?

How’s his self esteem?

Does he have an EHCP? I must have missed that!

So he has a chaotic background and inconsistency between parental figures. The answer is: consistency. The £20 thing - absolutely right to say no. But just say no. I can assure you, as a secondary teacher, this isn't even unusual with teens who aren't struggling ("give me £20 and I'll do my homework!" "You should pay me to be here; it's wasting my time" etc). So just a fairly emotionless "no" on repeat and continue the day. Imposing criminal intentions on it with accusations of blackmail escalates things. It's not criminal activity; it's nonsense. Treat is as such.
Then sending him back to his mum early - inconsistent. Promising to spend £1000 then changing to £100 - inconsistent. All that's happening here is you are wrong- footing him - he's testing boundaries and finding they give way immediately. This makes him insecure. This makes behaviour worse. He's pushing you and you're responding and it sounds as though everyone around him is doing the same. It's too much! Have clear, enforced rules and routines and stick to them. He's a traumatised child - seek to de-escalate, not escalate situations like the £20 thing, which in the grand scheme of things isn't that bad. If that gets him sent home, something even worse will lead to what? You not seeing him again? That's what he will now be worrying about and possibly even testing. Show him you're there, solidly dependendable. Its easy when they get physically larger to assume they are adults now, but most kids his age are honestly overgrown toddlers. Take the same approach: routine, be there, don't rise to the bait when he tries you.
As an aside, if he is generally very concerned with money, I'd try to take money out of the equation. Does he need to know how much you spend on him? Maybe remove this as being such a hugely important factor in things like Christmas and he will hopefully learn it's not the be all and end all.

Your DS is being abused and your DD is being neglected. Why are you fighting for custody for your children?

I'd be concerned about getting him caught up with school asap. One way or another he's going to be falling behind intellectually and that's going to be a whole series of other issues.

@OverTheCountryClub

It was blackmail. It wasn't just saying give me £20 to do my homework, I would just say no to that. He was saying that he would misbehave in class if I didn't give him £20 - he is aware of how difficult his behavior has been and how much distress it has caused everyone around him for months and what was upsetting is that after tons of supportive work with him from school, myself, Camhs etc. he doesn't care, and is happy to threaten to misbehave and mess around at school for £20.

This wasn't him asking to be paid £20 to do his homework, this is 45 minutes of him saying he is going to mess around unless I give him £20. This is after months of trying to get him to school, and trying to get his behavior to change.

I didn't promise to spend £1000, I told him that my intention had been to spend up to £1000 on him that day but I would now be spending £100.

He knows very well that I am here for him and that he can stay with me when ever he wants to. But his behavior was so poor, honestly I just didn't want it. And he got the message, and went to school for two days and behaved.

He has consistency, he knows which days he is with me and his mum. He has attention, he has care and support. None of that has made a difference, telling him off in the way that he did made and instant difference.

@MerryCheesemas

I have been left with some trauma symptoms from 2020, and I am not able to. Also a custody application could take 2 years to go through court, by then he will be almost 16 and is legally able to choose where he lives so it would be pointless. My daughter seems fine at school etc. despite my concerns, and she can stay with me as long as she wants to at the moment without gaining custody.

@rob38 yep. I know exactly how they behave. It's still not "blackmail" - definitely manipulation, definitely on the wind-up (and it worked!). I have worked with teens for over 10 years including in a PRU with behaviour so bad they can't even be in mainstream. I have had countless stand-offs over these types of issues, so my answer comes from experience, although I do appreciate a parental dynamic is very different to a teacher one.
My answer still stands: consistency. Relentless routine. Firm and immovable boundaries. De-escalation. Proportionate responses to developmentally typical behaviours. In my opinion, in the incident you described, those strategies would have helped, and would continue to help, if you persevere. But obviously you think you did the right thing and maybe you did - I wasn't there; I don't know him or you. Good luck with it all - I wish you both the best.

You won the battle not the war. Educated yourself on childhood trauma before you lose him completely

So you can't attend court at all because of trauma

But when your child isn't attending school or is misbehaving its because he may just be being naughty

Why are you holding him to higher standards than yourself.

Your daughter doing fine at school is not the sole measure of her well being when her physical needs are being neglected wholly by her mother and partly by you according to your posts.

Get some therapy for your trauma and stop expecting your children to choose to not be with someone abusing them. They don't have the maturity to disentangle themselves from an abusive relationship, many adults don't so expecting a small child and a teenager to do that without support is unconscionable.

You appear to now just be wanting posters to support you being "harsher" and have an excuse for everything else

Whilst it must be incredibly hard to witness his poor behaviour, he's being failed by both of his parents!
You've continuously accused your ex of being abusive and neglectful and yet you thought the best parenting reaction to the pen/£20 event, was to send him back to an abusive household!
You then seem to be patting yourself on the back because your 'harsh' reaction to him meant he behaved in school. Have you considered that maybe he didn't play up because he wasn't in a fun mood? Not your amazing parenting?
If your ex is as bad as you're making out (I'd like to hear her version of events!) why on earth aren't you going down the full custody route?
Your son sounds challenging but I feel sorry for the poor sod.

It sounds to me like both children are living with a mentally ill, neglectful mother, yet you are not prepared to step up and have them longer nor talk to her . A previous poster is correct in saying YOU have to really step up now as a parent- take them to doctors, dentists, parents evenings, keep them safe.

@rob38
Not sure how familiar you are with this site but what often happens is that when posters feel that they’re not being listened to, they realise that they are not getting anywhere so they stop posting.

People have taken time out of their day to help your son and you. There have been some excellent, wise, knowledgeable and compassionate pieces of advice that may have taken quite a while to write.
For Free.

But in all honesty, you don’t seem to be really listening. You just keep repeating the same thing about how abandoning him (because that’s how he will see it) worked.

I’m finding it so frustrating that I’m not going to read anymore. The fact that you’re not taking on board individual points and agreeing to adopt them, in stages - no one is suggesting you can adopt them all at once.
but honestly you should print out this thread and read then re-read. (Ignoring the rude unhelpful posts, you always get some of those).

Your son may not end up a criminal but my guess is he could well end up depressed. If you don’t step up for him he won’t be able to function in a relationship as an adult.

I can’t resist saying it again before I go: THE DUMPING HIM DIDN’T WORK as a strategy. Listen to what people are telling you.
Don’t kid yourself.

Am hiding the thread now.

Meant to say, so people realise they are not listened to and the thread dwindles out.

But, if you’d appeared to be talking on board the advice, the knowledgeable people on here would continue to support you over a long period of time.

I’ve seen people being supported out of long-term abusive relationships. From the first time they are brave enough to post, to the time they escape, which can be months or years later.

People have also been supported through long term illnesses or trauma. There are threads that run for years in low profile parts of the site.

You could be supported but you appear to be Defensive rather than Open and you’re just not listening.

Wish your family and you well.

@WetTowelsWillRemainOnFloorWhereTheyHaveBeenLeft

I don't see you as people. You are letters on a screen, it doesn't matter to me if you have taken time to respond.

This site is similar to chatgpt to me.

Where I have taken on useful information, including in the form of criticism, I have clicked thanks, or posted 'Thank you :)'.

Where I have not but the post is passionate, I have replied in the hope of getting useful information.

After I posted that an Help Worker, School, Camhs, and myself have been involved for months and that I use therapeutic parenting, and the posts state the obvious 'consistency, attention,' etc. that is not useful to me.

Given the involvement of professionals, consistency, positive reinforcement, attention etc. will have already been tried or already existed.