Those four young men who died in Wales

[Choirsinger7]

My heart breaks for them and their families, they looked a looked a lovely bunch of young men, with bright futures and just wanted a bit of independence and fun as they should do at that age before it all went horribly wrong. My DS is a similar age.

We have that rule here - it still doesn't stop them!

Yes this had me in tears. I'm praying for their parents and families. I'm not sure how you even begin to heal from such grief. But I pray they find comfort and peace.

You can’t baby people forever.

Ive spoken to a 19 year old and 22 year old this week, both working hard, full time, doing extra professional studies

Car engines need to be limited perhaps, for under 20’s, so that they can’t speed so much, but lots of people work and need to drive

This is so desperately sad. I agree with the poster, who said this thread is not just about honouring these boys but about future prevention. My heart goes out to their loved ones.

We live in Shrewsbury and DS went to college with some of the boys. The mood was very somber yesterday at home and also at work where some colleagues know the families. So so tragic and gone far too young. RIP beautiful boys 😔

Such a tragedy, their poor, poor parents.

A friend of my daughter’s died as the result of a head on collision. She was getting better and recovering from her injuries - a blood clot killed her. She was just 17. Driving alone on a local road she would have known well. So sad, my heart goes out to the families tonight.

How do you plan to control that as he'll be able to make his own choices at 18?

A very dear friend of mine was killed in a car crash in 1992. Five young people in a mini metro. The driver had passed her test three days before. The car flipped over and all five were killed.
I was on holiday with DH, opened a national paper and his name was there... Very upsetting for everyone....

Are you sure? A search suggests there is no law against this in the UK, though there is in many other countries.

A law banning this would not stop every case, but it would make such driving a lot less common. "There's no point having laws because some people break them!!" is such a cheem's mindset.

I'd like to see teenagers banned from driving large, heavy vehicles like SUVs as well, unless there are exceptional circumstances like someone who lives on a farm and literally has to churn through muddy tracks and has no public transport available. Under 21s are already banned from driving lorries in some countries.

Perhaps not just now, but once something is on the Internet, it's there for ever. I think it might be of a little comfort in the future for the families, to know how many people were so very saddened by this.

.I'd like to see teenagers banned from driving large, heavy vehicles like SUVs as well, unless there are exceptional circumstances like someone who lives on a farm and literally has to churn through muddy tracks and has no public transport available

Why SUV’s? Where I am, we do have limits on the type of vehicle new drivers can use, but it’s centred around power of the vehicle. Nothing turbocharged, or V8 or with too much power for size/weight, but that doesn’t exclude SUV’s. I always made my kids drive SUV’s when learning or when new drivers as I’d much rather they had an accident in an SUV rather than a small car. That’s one of the reasons I drive a large SUV myself, sure I’m not going to come off well if hit by a semi or bus but will be better off in most average crashes, plus they fit a shit tonne in when you go to IKEA and avoid the faff of home delivery. My SUV’s with front and rear cameras, reversing assistance with sensors, pedestrian collision avoidance system, lane assist etc have all been a lot safer than small cars without any of this.

I assume that poster's not in the UK

I've felt very upset by it. I'm from New Zealand and we have awful, dangerous country roads. We did learn to drive much younger (15 when I was younger). I believe it has now increased to 16. Up to six months learners then up to 18 months restricted so no passengers under 25, not after 10pm and 0% on alcohol reading. Unfortunately we still had tragic accidents.

My SUV’s with front and rear cameras, reversing assistance with sensors, pedestrian collision avoidance system, lane assist etc have all been a lot safer than small cars without any of this.

No. The data shows clearly that SUVs substantially increase risk to pedestrians.

The increased weight is a factor.

They also have large blind spots, which are not resolved by cameras. It is harder to see people low down in front of the vehicle, esp children.

But the biggest danger comes from the shape of the front. With a car which has a car-like front end (a low, sloping hood), a person who is hit is likely to be hit in the legs, and be sent rolling over the hood. With SUVs which have high, blunt front ends, people are typically getting hit in the chest - children are getting hit in the head, which is even worse. They then face a substantial risk of ending up UNDER the vehicle, and I should not have to emphasize how dangerous this is.

Four wheel drive also tends to increase braking distance.

https://towardsdatascience.com/suvs-are-killing-people-de6ce08bac3d

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tanyamohn/2023/11/17/vehicles-with-highervertical-front-ends-put-pedestrians-at-risk/?sh=2bc12b45169f

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/11/14/iihs-taller-more-upright-vehicles-deadlier-for-pedestrians/

My heart breaks for them and their families.

Such an upsetting story.

Where I live, under 18’s who have passed their test cannot, for the first year, drive with anyone in the car who is not over the age of 20 and who has not held a full driving license for at least four years. They cannot be on the road between 11pm and 5am and cannot use any hands free devices like phones or GPS units

A family member of one of them had to read ridiculous comments on a previous thread and I'm praying they don't have to read this one youve highlighted. The comments are ridiculous.

Can never understand these threads myself. Absolutely no need and no doubt won't be taken down.

I regularly drive in that area in North Wales - family there and holidays etc. I too drive a small car and every time I wish I was in a bigger, faster, more solid car. The roads are difficult if unfamiliar with them and you cannot go as slow as you’d like in order to be safe because you’ll always get faster cars behind you and queues building up. You feel pressurised to go faster than you’re comfortable with. I would never drive them at night.

Poor lads and their families.

Ha, unlikely when he's 18. With what money. Have you seen the price of driving lessons lately?

Some posters have criticised those of us who would like to see laws limiting passenger numbers for young drivers, saying that we have no evidence they were driving recklessly or showing off.

Personally, I am not saying anything of the sort about their driving. Just that the driver would have been very inexperienced, and having passengers adds a layer of distraction to anyone driving a car. I sometimes ask my kids to wait a minute if they ask me a question as a approach a big junction/roundabout etc.

So I do think limiting/banning passengers for inexperienced drivers would be a good thing, but to limit distraction risk rather than to reduce risk of showing off. Of course it wouldn't stop all accidents with young drivers but surely any reduction in numbers is welcome?

Me too and my story further down about my brothers crash was exactly this...on a NZ country road. So dangerous.

So, so desperately sad 😞

Grief hijacking? 😅 you mean.... empathy?

A truly tragic accident, my thoughts are with there family and friends.

I think it's in poor taste to speculate on what caused the accident, it could be mechanical failure, blown out tyre, wildlife on the road . To jump to the conclusion it was solely down to the drivers age must be very hurtful to the parents and loved ones .