Trauma or Autism or neither.

[StrugglesSadness]

Firstly, I apologize for the length.

My son first started displaying worrying behaviour when he was 1.5. Flying into a rage & not being able to calm down for hours & hours. By 3, I asked for help, I did parenting courses & learned he suffers from anxiety.

Sister born.

Age 4 me & his dad split up. He was was still around a lot, we still had family days out. My son witnessed some shouting between us. It wasn't all harmonious.

By the age of 6 the behaviour had turned violent towards myself. I'm walking on eggshells. Anything sets him off. A Caff was opened. Anxiety was noted. Advice like 'Just walk away' leading me to wander around the house carrying my 2 year old, for hours. Exhausting myself & being attacked constantly from behind.

Covid. Home schooling, if my son can see the work there on the laptop, then he has to get it done. He won't have a break or rest if he can see work there.

Age 8 2nd Caff opened. This Support worker put all of the blame on myself & I agree. Support worker tells me not to cry in front of my son as it 'Makes him think that I am weak'. I am weak.

Behaviour is now absolutely horrendous. Leaving the home, extreme violence. Talks about wanting to kill himself. Gets hold of knives & uses anything he can as weapons. My heart is breaking for my son. Violence extends to his sister.

This lovely school worker mentions Autism & PDA. (She has left now. Beyond gutted) Maybe I can finally make things better for my son... Support worker is having none of it. Constantly tells me that meltdowns are happening because my son is 'Tired/hungry/bored/it's normal' Etc. Etc.

I complain to her manager & ask for the Caff to be closed if that's all the help she's going to be. Caff has been opened for a year & a half, we get a new support worker & keep it open.

New worker is on board with the 'Possible autism'. Tells me it's not my fault.
School is a bit... 'There's a few things going on but nothing of much concern, however, we are concerned re his behaviour at home. (Also, sister is crying in class & tells them that he hurts her)

so (almost done!) Here we are now. We are having family therapy sessions & the therapist has decided that my son is suffering from trauma due to his dad leaving, & that it's nothing like autism. He's dropped this bombshell on me.

I'm not sure where to go from here. When I google, there's clearly overlaps between autism/Trauma. How do I know which one it is? (If it's any) what do I do?

Obviously the thought of my son walking around traumatised is just horrendous. How can I help him? Surely if it's trauma then he needs counselling or something?

I know that nobody on here can actually tell me, I just feel so lost.

Choconuttolata No they just say 'Keep ourselves safe'. It's possibly in writing on my plan from the psychologist (who didn't meet my son) to NOT shut him in his room... & that's what I worry about.

My daughter's safety plan is in my room & the arguement has always been why don't I shut myself in there with her (because he gets out/turns the gas oven on/swallows batteries/gets even MORE heightened as he thinks I have just left him & he doesn't have his blankets & books to eventually calm himself)

No I've never been to the GP for injuries, just had that chat over the phone a while back. I've sent pics to Social worker before but no proof that my son caused them.

Family solutions said that she wanted me to get some proper counselling for myself & some help with my sleeping & was going to speak to the Social worker about that, but when she came yesterday she just said 'How many sessions of CBT did you have before?' So I think the social worker has just said for me to do that again.

The police will only come if he actually has a knife. I need those police reports for the referal too. They've 'seen' it, although I expect, again, that it will be said he was heightened because of the police.

I'm being very negative, I know. It felt absolutely heartbreaking earlier, to hear the counsellor say how much he can see, & know that all he's going to do is write a letter. I feel like his, & my, voice is just going to be lost.

A bit too shattered to reply but have read your updates and thinking of you. What a bloody hard week but at least half term is round the corner. Personally I think A&E if his mental health or your mental health is on the edge.

Thank you Hearti I hope you manage to get some rest.

I did speak to the counsellor a little, & told him that I know that people tell me that he doesn't mean to hurt me but I believe there is a switching point, where it changes from 'Doesn't want to hurt me' to 'Wants to kill me'. & that anybody else could be his parent, he doesn't need 'me'. I also told him that everything is hopeless & there is no joy in any of our futures.

Could you get one those nanny cameras- not to spy on him all the time but just to switch it on when has a meltdown ? I think you can get ones that link to a app on your phone as well so you can show the social workers ?
It would save a lot of the stress and anxiety you are going through trying to get the professionals to listen you. I have a family member who uses an app to keep an eye on an elderly relative who has had falls but lives independently not sure how I would feel myself about being ' spied ' on mind you but in your sons case you and your daughter are going round in what seems like a never ending loop of therapists and social workers and not one them seems to be believing you - it makes sense to use something like this in a limited way. It means you don't have to physically hold a phone or camera while you are trying to cope with your sons rage. I mean drivers use dash cam footage all the time to prove who is in wrong with road accidents - police ask for dash cam footage from other vehicles when dealing with incidents so I can't see that there would be anything wrong in Limited use of camera on your son to show what he is like during a meltdown.
Also if you don't want to or aren't able to do that then perhaps you could just put your phone down on a nearby table and leave it on record so they can hear his meltdown.

Thank you CHRIS003. I didn't realize that you could do that. I wonder if the police could help advise me on which one to get?

I have recorded just the sound of the meltdown itself before, putting my phone down Like you say, but then I always listen back & think well there's no proof of what started that? What's to say I didn't just smack him or something & thats why he's upset? (Obviously I don't) I just doubt myself so much & don't want to do anything else to 'help', but that actually makes things worse.

I think we are at the end of the road with regards to outside agencies, whilst things stay as they are.

When I spoke to the manager at Barnardo's she said that this Family Solutions is all that SS will offer at this stage. & SS said that the CIN plan would only be open for 6 months, & then they were going to leave us to get on with it.

I have I think 7 sessions left with the counsellor, just me & him, we have 5 or 6 Family Solutions sessions left, so it's all going to end soon.

I just need to get that assessment in. I don't even care what school have said. They are wrong. I'm his parent & they are wrong.

I realised that I have all of my many, many, many emails to the school for some kind of 'proof' maybe. Re meltdowns the night before, that morning etc & explaining that we will all be late today as me & his sister are currently shut in the bathroom whilst he tries to smash the door down & we can't get out, down the stairs, out of the house safely (Happened twice)

But then again I think, well who's to say why that meltdown started?

I also sent an email before Christmas stating that he'd come home having either wee'd or poo'd himself every day for the last 2 weeks (I know it's not their job to worry about that) but they wrote on their form that there were 'No issues' with continence at school.

I even thought about asking my neighbour to make a statement, I mean we share a wall after-all! But again, where's the proof that I'm not antagonizing him?

We had a good morning today, anyway. He can kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel re exam week being finished (I havn't told him about the Social worker coming tomorrow)

Just a point on the audio recording - start recording when it looks like a situation is building up so you get it from the start that way if he does kick off then you can get the start of it.

On your point about the schools part of the assessment - when all the reports are put together the the assessment team will look at everything together and do what ever assessment they need to do with your son before they make their decision. Remember you only have experience of one school. The assessment team will have dealt with lots of schools so they will know the standard of school assessments in your area. I am pretty sure they will have dealt with your school before so they will know which schools are good at filling out assessments and which of them aren't. I am sure the school assessments are mostly to give them an idea of what academic level your son is operating at whether he requires extra support going forward.
Sorry if you have mentioned this before - but does he have a PIP / DLA award ?
I was reading another post where the owner of a private nursery said she couldn't obtain funding for extra help for a child awaiting ASD assessment because the parents hadn't done a DLA application they were refusing to do one - i was wondering if a DLA award makes any different to the assessment process for older children assuming you can do assessment without a diagnosis of autism?

Thank you for your help CHRIS003. Yes, when I originally applied to have him assessed via the school, the Senco said that my son was second on the list to be done, so she obviously had several to do.

I had a phonecall from his teacher earlier saying how well he's done this week. I told her what he's been worried about at home, not that it will make a difference.

He does have DLA, I applied a few months ago & it was actually (for once!) A straight forward process!

I thinks it is good you got DLA ? This should be a positive for autism assessment
Because the dwp obviously believes you if no one else does ! ( never ever thought I would praise those people after the hell they have put me through in the past with health assessments lol)

CHRIS003 I know the feeling! My own claim for PIP was knocked back until I gave up.

Tough day today.

Family solutions are annoyed that the counselling sessions are ending for my son. I did point out to her that even before they began, the Social worker has been against them & has said at every opportunity that 'Counselling isn't the right step'.

I also said that my son asked for the last one, to be the last one, & the counsellor has respected that.

She said that she spoke to his dad & he basically had an obstacle/barrier to everything she asked about more contact days/changing things around. I said 'This is him. This is what he does. He tells anybody who will listen, that he will have them 'Any time, any day, whatever she (me) wants'... But when you actually ask him, it's 'But'.

And then there's a school event today & my son is really scared about it. He said that all of his work is awful & I'm going to be extremely disappointed in him. He said he's going to shove his books behind the radiator so that I can't see. I told him that I'm never, ever disappointed in him

Sounds like he is very anxious at the moment what with mock SATS and is struggling with the change in school routine.

On a positive note at least family solutions have got wise to their Dad's behaviour and see that he is not supporting you. They should be taking this information and their concerns about counselling to the social worker if they have an issue. It is not like you can do anything about it, so why burden you further?

I think you are becoming scared of his reactions which is leading you to pussy foot around boundaries sometimes.
When he says that I don't think he means what he says, I think he's crying out for you to say you do very much care what work is in his books and to help him improve so saying you could never be disappointed is actually not useful to him, it is almost giving him back the power and responsibility and boundary he is asking you to set. Which is then overwhelming as he doesn't know what is expected and nothing he does can make him unloved or disappointed, which is actually very confusing for him.
Just my psychologist background there, I'm a teacher now.

Boomboom Yes I see what you mean. I did tell him that I'd like to see it either way, but when I got there he said that they let him chose & he chose to not show me that one.

He kept himself busy doing lots of different jobs around the classroom, all the other parents had left & the teacher had to say 'We can do some more on Monday, it's time to go home now'. He became a little upset but really managed quite well.

Social workers visit. 7 minutes (my son had his timer on) not really sure what the point of that was, or what she was hoping to see in 7 minutes, but (Negative head on here) I'm sure that, whatever she was wanting to see for the NDD referal, she didn't see it.

My son cried & begged not to have to see her. He said that she hates him & wants him to die. I spoke to him about the first time we ever met her, & reminded him that I was crying, & I let her see me feeling sad.

He seemed to be listening to this, so I just ended with 'I'm just saying, any of these people that come, if ever you feel sad or angry, you can show them that, that's ok'.

When she came he hid in his tent & refused to talk to her for the first couple of minutes, then he wrapped himself in a blanket & told her that he doesn't want to see dad this weekend & doesn't want to see me either as it will be 'Awful'.

She asked me things like 'What time is he having them tomorrow? What time is he bringing them back? Have you got to drop them off? What are they doing with him?'

I said 'I don't know' to all of those, & she said 'I see there's a lack of communication here'.

Choconuttolata I know, I wish they'd just talk to each other. Family Solutions said that she will 'Talk to the Social worker about this'. That's when I told her that she never wanted him to have this counselling in the first place.

How was your Saturday?

PDA can be complex BoomBoom. Expectations create mass internal pressure which highten anxiety, causing behaviours. Removing pressures naturally allows a child with PDA to reduce anxiety levels. Introducing very very very small achievable steps can help move things along slowly, however even then a child with PDA will need to feel in control to manage small changes - they will likely still feel incredibly unsafe and out of control. It’s good for small steps to involve involve negotiation, an agreed plan (written, drawn or verbal), patience, consistency, clear steps, a clear end and most importantly knowing they are safe. Sometimes a phrase ‘you’re safe’ and social stories (like your councillor) can help. It’s complex and of course all children are different and need different strategies.

It's impossible to diagnose over the internet but I'd say it's more likely autism than trauma (unless there's other stuff that you haven't mentioned) loads of kids have divorced/separated parents or parents that have real nasty arguments in front of them and they don't behave like this so it's probably autism. Some autists can become obsessed with things including knives and blood etc.
Please dont blame yourself

Thank you for your kind words Leah5678 There's nothing else, everything is here. I'm 80% sure it's Autism now, tbh. I don't think that it's trauma, but sometimes I wonder 'If not Autism, what then?'

I have often said 'Loads of kids have separated parents (including my sisters kids) but they don't try & kill their mums'. That's usually met with something like 'Your son is obviously extra sensitive though'.

Thank you Hearti. Our Saturday was ok, we had somebody in to do some DIY so that made things a bit tense & they were waiting to see their dad after getting back from his holiday (1pm ended up being 5.30) & my son is just exhausted. He's so tired. But we managed to hold it all together.

I briefly told his dad that it has been Sats week & it's been really stressful for our son & he asked 'How have you helped him with that then?' & I'll admit I just looked at him & didn't answer. It's 5 minutes between our houses & the kids are there, I think if he wants to ask me about things like that then ask me at a different time, when we have the chance to talk.

Fingers crossed for tonight.

His Dad is about as helpful as a chocolate teapot isn't he, jeez🤦. I think not responding verbally and a 🙄 was the right response. His question didn't deserve to be dignified with a reply.

Leah made me think though, have you ever looked at the Coventry Grid that professionals use to help them differentiate between autism and attachment problems based on clinical observations? You might find it interesting, although as others have said a child with ASD with unmet needs in the school environment can also become traumatised.

You can download it from the link here:

https://drawingtheidealself.co.uk/the-coventry-grid

Yes, thank you for that Choconuttolata I did that earlier in the thread. The results were something like 18 questions Autism & 2 Trauma (or however many there are)

I spoke to the counsellor about my son being traumatised because of his unmet needs, & he said that he think that absolutely is what is happening. It's just us though, 2 lone voices amongst a sea of 'I don't see it'.

I spoke to Family Solutions about the schools forms & how they've not mentioned so many things, she said that she has no idea why they'd do that but she still thinks that with my form & the counsellors letter (which she still says will hold a lot of weight even though he isn't lead professional) then it should be enough this time.

His dad said that he felt like he was being watched like a criminal, when he had Family solutions round... No sympathy from me. It was one time. I had Family Solutions X2, Counsellor X2, Social worker X1, just last week. Whilst he had a holiday.

Counsellor asked how involved his dad was with the forms, I said he wouldn't lend me his laptop or IPad when I told him how much I was struggling on my tablet, he said that he had 'nothing' to add without even reading what I've written, & he helped me with one techy problem with the form. That's it.

Just a question - if parents are separated and a child regularly sees both parents why is it that only one parent fills out the assessment form ?
I was surprised about this - you saying that the counsellor asked if dad was involved with filling out of the form ?
I would have thought that it would have been a given that both parents would
Be asked to do an assessment.
It is an accepted part of the autism diagnostic process that children present differently at school than they do home.
So surely it would make sense that a child may behave differently in another household ?
I am just questioning the logic of the assessment process here - not your personal situation.
Surely to get the best picture possible to help decide if a kid has autism or not then if parents have two different households that they spend time in then both would be involved?
Same would apply if for instance a child went to different day care settings or lived with a grandparent part of the time.

CHRIS003 I honestly don't know. I assumed that the Social worker would ask his dad if she needs him to do a form (now that she's the lead professional) The counsellor hasn't helped anybody with one before, so he wouldn't know.

I asked his dad if he wanted to add anything to mine or said he could write a statement or something but he just said that he had nothing to add.

He said there was nothing to add but in your previous post you said he didn't read it.
His dad should check with social worker- I would say that as your son spends some of his time at his dad's then he may have to do statement
Obviously you Want this assessment done soon - you don't want them fobbing you off with more delays once they start assessing him by saying - oh by the way we can't do a diagnosis til we get dad's statement as well.

CHRIS003 No he's never seen it. Well only the top section with name address etc when he did the techy part for me.

The Social worker will know won't she. Counsellor is getting his done this week, waiting for Family Solutions & Social worker.

Thank goodness your sons got you! This could all be a lost cause if it was just Dad on the case.

Yes totally agree dad really needs to do some kind of statement in support of the application or at least a statement on his own experiences with his son - I believe from previous posts that he shares care of the children. Bit of an oversight on the social workers part if she hasn't included dad and any partner he has too. She is not doing her job properly if doesn't involve the dad.
I may be wrong but it doesn't seem like he is very involved in the diagnostic process or at least not as involved as he should be.