How does gentle parenting work in later years

[ohheytherehi]

I have a 2.5 year old. I'd say my husband and I are using quite a gentle parenting approach, with boundaries (and a few bribes). She is generally really cooperative and although she has a few moments, she responds well to the approach I think. She does hit us though, and has hit other close family members. She feels bad afterwards and usually gives the person a hug, sometimes with us asking her to, sometimes not. I think that's normal enough behaviour for a 2.5 year old?

My question is how does this all work later. I have just visited relatives who live in another country. They have 2 lovely kids, 7 and 11. The older ones especially is polite, studious, sweet with my daughter. My relative says that her and her husband "show them who is boss" so that they know they need to respect adults. And they do. They're lovely. I also have suspicions they hit their kids. I would never do this, but I generally try to explain and negotiate with my daughter so that she feels in control. E g would you like this or that, would you like 1 or 2 more minutes of play etc. my relatives seem to imply that she is going to walk all over us at some point. I'm wondering if although it works now, a stricter approach is better in the future.

It's not normal for there to be no consequences for hitting sounds like her cuddle is no different to a child who says a meaningless sorry. How do you tell her it's not okay?
Why does she have to be in control? So will it be do you want to go to school? When do you want to go to bed? If she doesn't what happens?

@Codlingmoths I don't disagree and have left a similar group myself because try as they might people didn't listen to moderators etc explaining that it's not gentle parenting, that's being permissive.

I bet that happens a lot too, but in this (large) group it was absolutely the moderators too. Carefully explaining to me that having a bedtime was coercive. So if a 7yo decides to stay up all night on the internet /computer games, the parent can’t do anything apart from suggest aren’t you tired my precious little delight? Isn’t 16 hours a day of tablet time a little too much?

You do not hit your child. So far so good. Your child hits you. Not good. There is absolutely no point in a child apologising for deliberate behaviour, and no point in asking a child to apologise for this. It was deliberate. They are not actually sorry, just going through the motions - what are they learning? That you can do what you like so long as you say sorry afterwards? You must set firm boundaries with consequences for undesirable behaviour while your child is young or else their behaviour patterns will not change. How would you like a 5 year old to hit you and then apologise? What about a 15 year old? You're the parent - take charge.

This sounds like the ideal to me. Clear communication, empathy, explanation, appropriate boundaries and consequences depending on context. Emotional intelligence, confidence (not arrogance), and self-esteem are such important things for kids to develop, and I think, more than anything, it's this that can help them navigate the world when they get older. There's nothing weak in explaining why something is happening that they don't like, or in asking them how they feel and why they're behaving a certain way. When they're younger they may not have the ability to process their emotions or articulate themselves, so you have to help them build that vocabulary, which takes consistent practice.

I disagree that parents need control in so much as they need real respect, which can't be achieved by any method that engenders genuine fear, or that lacks any form of explanation as to why a boundary or consequence is being instituted. A parent who is respected will ultimately be listened to, or at least considered, when the child is old enough. I think it's tougher when they're very little and often you just need to stop them from harming themselves in some way, and so control plays a part there obviously, as it does in ensuring your household feels secure overall, but I think there's a difference between kids understanding that a parent is 'safely at the wheel' and kids feeling like a parent squashing who they're trying to become (or failing to care about who they are as individuals and the fact that their feelings and opinions matter). It's important to encourage them to respect you ultimately, and for them to learn how best to make their own choices and navigate the world. I guess it's about helping them build the skills they'll need to be decent folk.

I really think that all children should have a daily opportunity to be run ragged. Outdoor playing, running, jumping, climbing. Every single day, for hours.
They would be too tired for tantrums and less picky with their food due to being genuinely hungry from all the energy spent.
Good nights sleep would follow.
Currently got a 5 month old and plan to give this opportunity to the best of my ability

I think you're right. Isn't this what previous generations used to do?

Most definitely. At DCs school they start the day running a daily mile to burn off excess energy.

That's fab. They started this at my kid's previous primary, but unfortunately made it optional so the one's who'd have benefited most were the ones who declined 🤦‍♀️
They almost got it!

Perhaps I wrote too quickly. She likes watching a few minutes of screen time when brushing her teeth, so if she she hits that day, she doesn't get it. But yes, I think I also think that asking her to apologise or her apologising is just going through some motions and the hitting is maybe not as normal toddler behaviour as I thought. She hits every few days I would say, and started a few months ago 😞 if anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears.

In terms of in control, I mean I give her lots of choices on things, and that makes her cooperate really easily. Do you want to take off your pjs or should I? Do you want 2 mins of brushing teeth or 3? Do you want 2 spoons with porridge or 1? (She loves having two spoons for some reason). Etc. this is more what I mean by in control, as actually she doesn't have much control as we are two working parents so have to get stuff done!

My, now teenage, child had their moments when younger but never was a hitter or gave any real issue but the Idea of 'tiring them out' just made more whinging and complaining and there was no benefit

We didn't deliberately try, but if they missed a nap or whatever behaviour wasn't as good

Similar to Shuffle It’s quite funny when wet parents are called out by older children. Dd1 aged about 7 was shoved hard unprovoked off a bed by a slightly younger child. The parents ignored it. Dd normally a polite docile girl said loudly to the whole assembled group “I cannot believe I have been shoved and these parents are doing nothing about it”. Cue awkward shuffling from the (actually very high powered job) parents...

Thanks for the update OP.
I think the removal of screen time at tooth brushing time is too late after the hitting for her to make the connection.
The consequence for hitting needs to be immediate. A stern 'no', disapproving look and remove her from the situation. I know it's not particularly in vogue anymore but an immediate time out on naughty step (could call it something else) so she knows she's done wrong right then in the moment. No discussion until after the time out is up.
That's what I would suggest.

@ohheytherehi waiting until the evening is too late for a 2yo.

I used to just say NO, slightly louder and firmly. And then tell my dc something along the lines of ‘we do give cuddles. That’s much nicer.’ Basically showing an alternative, a nice one, to the hitting.
I also used to insist they would do that action. So exchange a toy instead of snatching. Give a cuddle instead of hitting. Not dissimilar to wha5 you do with the apology but it ciments what to do instead.

Time out has never worked for mines. Nor did briberies (or star charts when they older).
They just looked at me as if I was crazy lol. 😁😁😁

Never a fan of enforced Sorries, myself.
I've seen too many kids at playgroups cotton on to the fact that they can do whatever the hell they please once they follow up with a smirking Sorry!, and parents who will actually excuse their behaviour on the basis that "But he's said sorry! What's the problem?" even after three episodes of the same bratty behaviour in a row.

At that age, any consequences would be pretty soon after the behaviour in trying to stop, in your case the hitting you and family. If she gives you a thump at l10am that's a long time to wait until evening to give the consequence.

I don't think getting her into the habit of screen time while she's meant to be doing something is a good idea, she's at the age where she should be listening to you teach her how to do it correctly herself and if she's been allowed to develop the habit of screen time she may well be more focussed on that instead of washing and cleaning herself before her day starts or when she's meant to be unwinding for bed.

School kids being distracted by tv and taking ages to get socks and shoes on for example doesn't have the potential to be damaging to health like a kid being distracted from cleaning their teeth correctly because they're focusing on the screen.

That's not gentle parenting it's Apathetic parenting I wonder what explanation would be given to the police later in life but he wanted to take it!

Codlingmoths
I bet that happens a lot too, but in this (large) group it was absolutely the moderators too. Carefully explaining to me that having a bedtime was coercive. So if a 7yo decides to stay up all night on the internet /computer games, the parent can’t do anything apart from suggest aren’t you tired my precious little delight? Isn’t 16 hours a day of tablet time a little too much?

That's not gentle parenting it's Apathetic parenting I wonder what explanation would be given to the police later in life but he wanted to take it!

It's actually neglect in safe guarding terms!

She will not remember having hit even an hour later so no screen time is totally unrelated in her eyes. Do you discuss how you feel that it's not kind of gentle and role model with toys? Do you talk about her feelings and offer her words to express them rather than her hands?
So you mean you offer choices when it's appropriate

I don't think hitting is normal, even for a two year old.
I also don't think a two year old has the mental development to understand negotiating etc. Hitting may be one way if exhibiting frustration as they are not articulate enough to explain it even understand their feelings. I don't really get what gentle parenting vs active is, I think most people just muddle through.
As for your friends, showing who's boss can mean lots of different things. Firm but fair is ideal, but parents are humans too and there's no age limit in anger or unreasonable behaviour.
I've known kids who have had very hands off 'go with the flow' parenting who have turned out lovely young adults, and some that have become rather self cantered. I've also known kids from much stricter parents who have turned out similarly!
The fact remains that people will be what they will be and you cannot change them. If they were genetically made to be a gentle kjnd person it would take quite a bit to change that (though they may go through some awful 'phases'). And if someone who has a bit of a mean streak the same.
My two children are very different in every way. One is male one is female. But same parents, same upbringing. One was a real handful always in trouble at school (not malicious, but gobby, unorganised, late). The other is well behaved, biddable (except when she isn't) and hard working. It's their personalities.
Also I don't think anyone should be dishing out parenting advice when they have kids that haven't even reached their teens.

I think a good rule of thumb is Todder Can Have Some Choice but Parents in Control.

I never used time out or removal of screen time or reward charts with mine.

If they hit me (tbf i don't think they ever did) I think I would have said in a raised voice "ow! How dare you! You do NOT hit mummy. If you do that again I will be extremely cross with you and you will go to your room".

If they were disruptive in public I would put them in the car, say I am very very upset with your behaviour. How dare you behave like that. Do you think everyone who is out to have a nice lunch with their families wants to hear two children screaming? I am very disappointed with you. And I would drive home in silence (they would be howling in the back).

Then when we got home we would have a hug and move on.

I think I would have expressed my outrage with them without shouting. It's not right to take things out on small children but it is important I think to use your own feelings and act authentically. I think that is the problem with the "gentle" methods, there is little thought about where an authentic parental reaction fits in for fear it descends into inappropriately taking something out on a child.

But you can be authentic as well as keep the role of parent and not be frightening or shouty.

“Too tired for tantrums”

I can tell you have a 5mo

@ohheytherehi

She hits every few days I would say, and started a few months ago 😞 if anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears.

Honestly I think you can fix this now. I would sternly say no hitting & take to naughty step & give no eye contact or discussion about it. I don't think the cuddles afterwards are needed either. I don't think any punishment later in the day is worth bothering with. At that age it's ages ago and they have moved on.

I think you should give her choice in for example how much porridge to have or maybe a choice of two outfits. But I don't think at that age they can make decisions on much else.

Imagine if she hits a grandparent or another child or her cousins.

I mean god knows I am happy to facilitate chucking my children outside to run around and climb all day, that’s pretty much what they do, but too tired for tantrums is hilarious