Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

[reddragon7]

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

I guess it just feels like women end up beating more domestic work, they carry the pregnancy, give birth. Generally, they are in more vulnerable positions than men. They have less work opportunities, hence, I don’t think financial obligation should be expected from them in marriage, unless they want to contribute.

Of course it’s different if the man is struggling or has other difficulties, but I mean if the man has enough, I think it’s balanced for him to take his wife’s financial responsibility, only to as much as he can afford, and then adjust accordingly, rather than expecting a 50:50 set-up beforehand.

Where you stand on same sex parenting doesn't really require you to be 'fully awake' it's a fairly fundamental belief

I guess I think it’s fair because it gives women more security within marriage, as I still a woman should have her own savings.

Okay, just read this. I am strictly talking a about a male-female relationship only and those dynamics. Same-sex couples can do as they wish, I can’t comment as it’s whatever works best for them. They don’t necessarily have the masculine-feminine dynamic for me to be able to pass opinions on financial/childcare set up. They are the same sex, so in that sense I think 50:50 is fine. The gender roles won’t even apply as both parents are of the same gender.

Pregnancy was 9 months of my life. It was shit, and I hated it, but I wanted a child.

I wanted a child just as much as dh.

so why should I expect home to financially maintain me, for possibly 50 years, because I had a shit time for a few months to get something I wanted just as much as he did?

why should he spend his entire life working, probably well into his old age, not getting to see the kids he wanted because he’s at work, putting in the hours because he knows he can’t lose his job. To the detriment of his physical and mental health.

years and years, to “pay me back” for that year and a half of pregnancy and breastfeeding.

no wonder so many men decide they’re better off out of it. Still don’t get to see their kids, but at least the don’t have to pay for another adult any more.

Biggest thing to put women in a vulnerable position - being a sahp without their own independent income

Government stats show that women who are unemployed are more likely to suffer domestic abuse than women who are employed.

Your suggestion literally makes women more vulnerable. If you spend more time on the relationships board on MN you will see this pattern repeat itself again and again

You also seem to think it's 50/50 or nothing. But what a lot of people on MN do is actually equity. They share household chores and parenting tasks according to free time and pool money and have the same available for spending. The idea being that both people have the same amount of free time and money to spend. I'm not sure why that is supposed to be a bad thing to aim for.

So if I have a vagina I get a free pass from working. But my male gay friends don't because they have penises. How very reductive.

But you said “women are more naturally nurturing”.

so can men nurture or not? So a child brought up by a single dad or a same sex couple can’t possibly be nurtured “properly” because women are just naturally better at it?

what about two females in a relationship? According to you they are both biologically programmed to nurture the children. So who goes against nature and works?

can’t have it both ways.

fwiw my mum was a sahm and was the most in nurturing woman. We preferred to spend time with our dad as he genuinely enjoyed being with kids. Just a shame we didn’t get to spend more time with him as he was always working to pay for everything.

Where does a woman get her own savings from if she doesn’t work?

Pesky lesbians fucking up the OPs half baked theories

Sorry - all i can imagine now is "stimulate herself". Go girl - get yourself that NVQ in knitting lentils so you can naicely stimulate yourself to ahhhhhhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhhh arrrgh a satisfactory climax

ok so if i have vagina i should choose life partner with vagina so we can be 50 50 ok ok.

If i choose life partner with cock - we cant be 50 50

cool cool

The reality is that gender norms are actually harmful to women. They are harmful to men too, but mostly to women. I’ve spent time as a SAHM and think it can be great! But you have to be in a very good, respectful, trusting and financially secure relationship. A lot of women are not and that’s when abuse happens.

Not once did I say that. I said same sex couples can do as they wish, as gender roles can’t be applied to them in a dynamic, since they are of the same gender anyway. My post was only aimed at heterosexual couples.

So your rules only apply for people who fit the proscribed masculine feminine dynamic?

So any person who doesn'tfit the proscribed stereotype can do what they like ?
Irrespective of sexuality?

Since I don't actually know anyone who truely meets their stereotype I guess your rules just don't apply to anyone ?

So you are saying " if people actually were easily definable by gender stereotypes then structuring society according to those stereotypes would make sense "

Men can still nurture, I just said in most cases, women tend to be better. Obviously, this is not the case ALL THE TIME. In a gay relationship, there is no choice but the men to take on all the roles.

It is not at all clear that women are innately better

Actually it's not clear that even post nurture women are actually better

So given the lack of evidence why try to build a society around a falsehood ?

Savings can come from money given by husband, or a job, she has herself - whether part or full time. I said multiple times, I’m not against a woman working. But there shouldn’t be a financial obligation from her in marriage, unless required.

There should be no more obligation on a man as on a woman

Anything else is unjustified discrimination

Couldn't agree more op. But unfortunately they are some big important feminists on MN who look down at women who are SAHM and rely financially on a MAN (oh no!).

I mean take a look at the first couple of people to comment on your post... they are literally outraged at your opinion and even think it's a joke. A man working to support his family and a woman being happy to bring up the children at home ? Scoff scoff. How awful!

What is so wrong with fulfilling traditional gender roles ? When both are done correctly, with each parent choosing to do so, the nuclear family can be very happy.

But you can comment on what works best for every heterosexual couple?

Surely, if you believe that women taking on more of the domestic load is an issue, the obvious response would be to campaign for more men to take on their fair share. And if you think women have fewer opportunities in the workplace, the solution is to push for equal opportunities.

Not merely to roll over and accept that caring and domestic work are somehow "naturally" the responsibility of women and that the best we can hope for is to be let off the hook for earning money if we so choose? What about those women who want to have a career and to preserve their financial independence - are they expected to just suck it up and get on with it without challenging these inequalities.

I earn significantly more than my DH. We were both entirely capable of looking after our dd appropriately (she is past that stage now). He is definitely better at cleaning than I am. Why do you think that he should have had to fund me to SAH when dd was younger? What if he had wanted to SAH himself?

Also, do you think women still have the right to SAH when their kids are at school? At secondary school? Once their kids have left home? Do they have the right to be funded by their husbands indefinitely, or is there a cut-off point when he has the right to demand that they go back to work? If so, when is this, and what happens if the wife has been out of work for so long that she is no longer really employable?

There is nothing wrong with being a SAhm if

That's what both parties want
The women is fully protected and fully aware of the risks she faces.

There is something wrong in suggesting that being sahm is somehow better for the children and more natural

Men can still nurture, I just said in most cases, women tend to be better. Obviously, this is not the case ALL THE TIME. In a gay relationship, there is no choice but the men to take on all the roles.

You seem to be suggesting that men are only caring and nurturing when there is no other choices ( so in a gay relationship). That is utter rubbish.

In my social and professional circle men who aren't as equally caring and nurturing as women are the exception.

I've been away with work for the last 9 days and DH has been as caring and nurturing to DS as I would be. I travelled with my male boss who was clearly missing his wife and kids and couldn't wait to get home to them.

Thank you 🙌