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Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

866 replies

reddragon7 · 04/04/2023 20:32

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

OP posts:
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Bepis · 06/04/2023 17:20

I would imagine that she means it's not something she would do or support (in the sense of agreeing with it and/or attending pride events) but that other people are entitled to live their life as they wish. As long as she doesn't personally attack people for it or interfere with their lives then she's entitled to hold those views.

monsteramunch · 06/04/2023 17:23

Bepis · 06/04/2023 17:20

I would imagine that she means it's not something she would do or support (in the sense of agreeing with it and/or attending pride events) but that other people are entitled to live their life as they wish. As long as she doesn't personally attack people for it or interfere with their lives then she's entitled to hold those views.

Again, nobody has said she isn't entitled to her opinion. She is.

Just as others are entitled to have an opinion on hers.

She believes it's wrong to be homosexual, I think that's wrong and homophobic.

Both entitled to our views.

Bepis · 06/04/2023 17:24

@monsteramunch Absolutely both entitled to your views and opinions.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

SouthLondonMum22 · 06/04/2023 17:26

Bepis · 06/04/2023 17:20

I would imagine that she means it's not something she would do or support (in the sense of agreeing with it and/or attending pride events) but that other people are entitled to live their life as they wish. As long as she doesn't personally attack people for it or interfere with their lives then she's entitled to hold those views.

Again, I'm also entitled to hold the view that it is homophobic.

Not sure what your point is.

Lelophants · 06/04/2023 17:39

I’m so curious as to which country it is now! A lot of Asian countries hold a similar view and although I don’t generally agree, I understand how that can work in some circumstances. The issue is that often women end up working anyway and end up doing everything which is really hard.

Out of curiosity what brought you to create this thread op? Do you have children for your own and this is something you are considering?

I have a friend from Pakistan (the opposite of a small country!) and she very much takes on the maternal role and all cooking whilst her husband is breadwinner. She’s had to go back to work as they really can’t live on his salary alone (or at least not the level they like, with the current increase in cost of living). She doesn’t mind her job but she’s now working and does pretty much all the domestic work and she is very very burnt out. Her husband does take on some cleaning but won’t do some other tasks. I obviously don’t see him well through this, but the understanding originally was that she would get to be a sahm and that was her ideal.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 06/04/2023 17:42

reddragon7 · 06/04/2023 16:27

I understand it can be stressful to be the breadwinner, which is why I said, I only expect it if the man has the affordability. Not if he’s not able to.

If a woman wanted to work pre-children, I have no issue at all. Post-children, I hold the traditional view that they be the primary caregivers, so I think it’s reasonable for a man to want her to reduce her work hours, at least part time. Just as I think it’s reasonable for a woman to want her husband to provide fully, whilst she looks after the children.

OK, so you don't really believe in choice for women after all. You think it's OK for them to choose to work before children but they should really stay at home after children.

Do you understand that that way of life is incredibly miserable for some women? My own mother was a SAHP and it made her incredibly unhappy. Not because my father didn't provide for her...he was probably the model husband in that regard, and he helped out at home and with us kids as well. But she was bored and unfulfilled and felt that she was wasting her talents. It would have been better for all of us if she had worked, but she felt she should look after us when we were little and she had lost confidence in her abilities by the time that we were old enough for her to consider going back. Becoming a SAHP is her single biggest regret, and she gets upset about it even now.

It's totally fine if you want to stay at home yourself, but how can it be right for a woman to feel under pressure to stay at home when this model really doesn't suit her?

Bepis · 06/04/2023 17:44

@SouthLondonMum22 I felt that OP was being given a very hard time so wanted to comment.

CattySam · 06/04/2023 17:47

Has OP ever said if she’s actually married herself?

Im also interested in how you would chose her husband that meets your specific criteria. I presume you ask to see their payslips and bank balances before you marry and hence have sex with them? What if you unknowingly pick someone with health issues that mean they won’t be able to carry out their financial duties? What if you pick someone who cheats? Or is that simply not a possibility as you’re giving them all of the sex?

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 06/04/2023 17:47

Bepis · 06/04/2023 17:44

@SouthLondonMum22 I felt that OP was being given a very hard time so wanted to comment.

The OP has expressed some fairly extreme and controversial views, so it is not surprising that she will be challenged by a lot of posters.

She seems to be coping with the discussion.

ShodanLives · 06/04/2023 17:52

Bepis · 06/04/2023 17:12

OP has every right to her own views on gender roles in addition to homosexuality. We don't all have to hold the same beliefs or opinions.

Not one person has said otherwise.

SouthLondonMum22 · 06/04/2023 17:56

Bepis · 06/04/2023 17:44

@SouthLondonMum22 I felt that OP was being given a very hard time so wanted to comment.

I feel that those with sexist and homophobic views should be challenged.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 06/04/2023 17:57

Bepis · 06/04/2023 17:44

@SouthLondonMum22 I felt that OP was being given a very hard time so wanted to comment.

So to be clear you wanted to stand up for the poster who had others disagreeing with her homophobic views

Right oh

Mycathatesmecuddling · 06/04/2023 17:59

CattySam · 06/04/2023 17:47

Has OP ever said if she’s actually married herself?

Im also interested in how you would chose her husband that meets your specific criteria. I presume you ask to see their payslips and bank balances before you marry and hence have sex with them? What if you unknowingly pick someone with health issues that mean they won’t be able to carry out their financial duties? What if you pick someone who cheats? Or is that simply not a possibility as you’re giving them all of the sex?

She is married. Apparently when she met her DH she didn't believe in traditional gender roles but now she does

Which makes total sense as to why she would want this as a rule. Because she wants to force her DH into paying her to stay at home, despite the fact it wasn't the views she held when they got married

Basically she's hit her late 20s, realised that work is going to carry on for another 40 years and it's not always fun, and it would be easier to not do it, but needs a way to fund it so think setting back womens rights and creating homophobic rules is the way forward

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:00

@Mycathatesmecuddling Yes I did. She shouldn't be forced to change her views just like you shouldn't.

ShodanLives · 06/04/2023 18:02

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:00

@Mycathatesmecuddling Yes I did. She shouldn't be forced to change her views just like you shouldn't.

And no one is trying to force her.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 06/04/2023 18:03

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:00

@Mycathatesmecuddling Yes I did. She shouldn't be forced to change her views just like you shouldn't.

People pointing out her views are homophobic is not the same as forcing her to change her views

What she is proposing is forcing a change on the society of Britain that is both homophobic and sexist.

People disagreeing with her views are not forcing her to do anything

And challenging homophobic views is exactly what people should be doing.

Standing up for those trying to force homophobic changes however, like you are doing, is an interesting choice

monsteramunch · 06/04/2023 18:04

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:00

@Mycathatesmecuddling Yes I did. She shouldn't be forced to change her views just like you shouldn't.

Sorry, where has anyone tried to force her to change her views?

It baffles me that you read the recent exchanges and felt sorry for someone homophobic to the point you felt compelled to step in and defend their honour.

Bizarre.

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:05

@Mycathatesmecuddling Apologies if I missed the post, but where did OP try to force homophobia on society? I may have missed it as I haven't read all the recent posts in detail.

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:07

@monsteramunch why do you feel it is bizarre? I feel the same way about anyone who gets attacked for holding different views to mainstream society, whatever subject that may be.

bossonext · 06/04/2023 18:10

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:07

@monsteramunch why do you feel it is bizarre? I feel the same way about anyone who gets attacked for holding different views to mainstream society, whatever subject that may be.

Do you jump in heroically to defend racists?

Mycathatesmecuddling · 06/04/2023 18:10

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:05

@Mycathatesmecuddling Apologies if I missed the post, but where did OP try to force homophobia on society? I may have missed it as I haven't read all the recent posts in detail.

The entire point of the thread is the OP wants to change society so that married women have the right to demand their husbands financially support them if they want to give up work. But only if they are hetrosexual. And married, unmarried but in a relationship mothers are not going to be afforded the same rights.

OverTheHillAndDownTotherSide · 06/04/2023 18:11

So in your ideal world, OP, where mothers don’t work that’s going to mean very few women on TV, on stage, science and technology.

Just look at some of what would be lost in terms of scientific development.

https://royalsociety.org/~/media/royal_society_content/about-us/equality/2011-06-15-mothers-in-science.pdf

The scientist responsible for one of the Covid vaccines has triplets. Imagine if she hadn’t bothered pursuing her life’s work after they arrived.

https://royalsociety.org/~/media/royal_society_content/about-us/equality/2011-06-15-mothers-in-science.pdf

SittingNextToIt · 06/04/2023 18:11

So far we have the following facts -

  1. The OP is against homosexuality
  2. The OP is against sex outside marriage
  3. The OP believes the man should provide
  4. The OP believes women should keep house and tend to children
  5. The OP comes from a “small Asian country” in her own words

Do we still absolutely not see this person is severely influenced by religion and comes from a deeply conservative religious orthodox background?

Engaging with this person in good faith, from liberal (relative to this person’s politics), feminist, democratic ideals - is surely futile?

monsteramunch · 06/04/2023 18:11

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:07

@monsteramunch why do you feel it is bizarre? I feel the same way about anyone who gets attacked for holding different views to mainstream society, whatever subject that may be.

If OP had said she didn't support interracial marriage, rather than same sex marriage, would you still have responded in the same way?

Bepis · 06/04/2023 18:12

@bossonext Depends on what you mean by racist. People get accused of being racist even when they aren't being. But if you mean racism as in criticising someone for their skin colour then no I wouldn't support that.