Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

[reddragon7]

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

It's not 'uproar', that's very melodramatic.

People are just disagreeing with you robustly 🤷🏻‍♀️

That’s fair enough to them, but I don’t think they are even taking into context what I mean. It is what it is

We are silly hysterical women after all

What would probably be helpful would be if the OP got some clever men to come and explain it to our lady brains which are wired differently 🙄

@reddragon7

Again, people understand you. They just disagree. Each to their own.

You seem resistant to just accept people don't agree with you because they hold opposing views, not because they misunderstand you.

Disclaimer : didn't rtft.

Part of it is that it was VERY hard for women to be even allowed to work at all. Only a few decades ago it was not at all a given. You'd depend on your husband for everything. Most people don't want to go back to that - and choosing to stay home to raise the children would allow some people to think it's appropriate to suggest that all women should do just that.

And then there is the opposite - women who feel pressured to stay home even though they'd rather work.

Ultimately it'd be ideal for people to be able to do whatever they want to (and can afford to). But that's a conversation people should have with their partners before getting pregnant, ideally. If their views don't align, they might need to rethink the relationship.

Personally I went back to work after a 16 weeks mat leave (standard in my country) and I was very glad to regain some agenda and life as my own person. Not just someone's parent but also a person in my own right. I also believe my DC gain important skills in school (here school starts as early as 2-3). They learn to live with others, to share, to wait for their turn, etc.

I'm still the most crucial influence in their lives as the primary care giver. School doesn't change that. The way I see it they don't lose out by being away from me - they gain other things that they wouldn't learn from me. The first messages on this thread suggesting that going back to work was "giving your dc to raise to someone else" were a bit 🙄

If someone wants to stay home, personally I don't care one way or the other, I think they need to discuss it with their partner ahead of time to be sure they're on the same page. Aside from that, crack on.

Although I am tempted to ask why the OP was talking ONLY about women staying home - what about SAHDs ?

People can only respond to what you have actually written, not what might be inside your head, so the terminology that you use does matter.

If you express the view that women have the right to be financially supported by their husbands, or that men have the right to sex with their wives etc, then that's what people will respond to. And yes, those are considered to be very extreme views in the UK and quite shocking. I'm surprised that you're surprised by that, really.

If what you actually mean is that you would personally prefer this kind of set-up but you understand that it needs to be mutually agreed by both partners, then very few people will take issue with that. However, you can't expect people to understand that that is what you're saying - if indeed it is - if what you actually say appears to contradict this.

Nope, I even said, each to their own. I can accept people disagreeing with me. But some things have been taken out of context.

Oh the OP has covered SAHDs, they just arent as good and women are wired to be financially supported by men

She did try to back it up with research but unfortunately the research actually disagreed with what she is saying but shes still doubling down

Many, many others have respectfully answered your question but all you do is ask the same question again. 🤷🏻‍♀️

That’s fine - I’m opening to reading more opinions, for insight.

You're assuming the women need/want the men to provide. I'm a single parent by choice and I neither need nor want a man in the picture. Life is hard enough as it is.

The fact is that marriage only protects the lower earner. You're assuming that's always the woman, I think that's sexist and ignorant.

Okay this, I can completely understand. To make it clearer. Yes, I hold the view that I would like it to be a marital right for women to be financially supported by husbands, should they wish to be homemakers. Again, just my opinion. As I believe childcare and domestic care are of equal value, even if it’s not financial.

Of course, for a marriage to work, this has to be agreed on by both partners beforehand. And the “right to sex” was taken out of context. I meant that I feel, in marriage, sex is an advantage for both partners, that I personally wouldn’t allow outside of marriage. But that I do think men tend to place more emphasis on it, generally speaking.

Hah ! Thanks, I had missed that gem. At least that thread is good for a few laughs, though I suspect it might get taken down at some point.

If that’s what you’re comfortable with, that’s completely fine. But there are women who are being abandoned by their partners, and lack the financial support they may need from the child’s father.

That would be fixed by sorting out the mess that is the CMS system not by demanding women don't have to work if they dont feel like it whether or not the husband wants to be the breadwinner

I’m not saying the solution to this is for women to not work at all, but having financial provision from men as well as their own income, would allow women to save their own money, in case the man does abandon them or their children.

I’m typing and thought I’m having a casual chat, not deeping every word I say.

If you want an open floor to discuss controversial and misogynistic opinions then you need to spend the time to collect your thoughts and carefully word them, language is everything. Don't underestimate women to dissect what is an ill thought out and ignorant opinion, stand by it all you want, but you're losing, don't try to claim you're not trying very hard because it's casual or you're sleepy as a defence, what you're saying just isn't defensible.

I'm still not very clear on what you mean by a marital right, OP. For me, a "right" means something enshrined by law. A right that can be asserted and enforced whether the other party agrees with it or not.

However, your second paragraph acknowledges that both parties need to agree on this before they get married. That is an infinitely more reasonable position but the emphasis on mutual agreement points away from it being a "right".

So I don't actually understand which is your actual position.

Well, in actual fact, I have been occupied with other than trying to make sure I write a perfect well thought out piece on mums net. I just wanted to know perspectives in a light-hearted manner, ideally. Anyways, I’m not trying to underestimate anyone or “try hard.” This was supposed to be a time-pass discussion for me, as I generally find it interesting to know how others think.

Okay, well in that context, I feel I would prefer if it was a marital right that women can choose not to work post-children, if they feel they would benefit the family more from staying home with their children. This is just my ideal proposal. Obviously, since this ain’t the case in the UK, it would have to be agreed on beforehand, should couples wish to.

@reddragon7 well then, you're at over 400 replies, what are your conclusions?

I thought you said that this right should be applied to all women, even if they don't have children? Except women in same sex relationships, they still have to work under your totally not discriminatory plans.

You have barely acknowledged any answers though.

For example, I stated that one of the reasons I view gender roles negatively is because it hurts women who want to progress their careers. They have to deal with the assumption that they will have a year long maternity leave and go part time on their return.

A real life example is that I was recently overlooked for an opportunity at work because it involved brief travel time and when I asked for feedback as to why I wasn't considered, the response was that he didn't think I would want to leave my baby.

Ah yes, I would prefer if this was a right for all married women. The right to choose not to work, as some women may wish to carry our traditional roles without children too. But I would advocate it more so in the case of also having children.

Well since I clearly agree with traditional women/men roles, obviously my opinions wouldn’t apply to same sex marriages.

But I was discussing at women who WANT to stay home, but don’t have the opportunity. I have no issues with women who prefer to work.